AOL Scouting Adventure - Scout Rank

[5thGenTexan]

I am a Cub Scout leader holding many positions over the past few years.  I am currently helping to get a brand new girl troop up and running.  

How are AOL crossovers handled?  Scouting Adventure and Scout look to be the same requirements aside from the Scoutmasters conference.  Generally.... do the new Scouts who earned AOL repeat and get the requirements for Scout signed off or just go straight to the Scoutmasters conference?

[BAJ]

Ours do a separate sign off for the requirements, but the AOLs who have bridged can do that quickly.  Doing that gets them familiar with the process of getting things signed off (and their being the ones driving that process) but since they already know pretty much all of it it’s a “quick win.”  Then the SM conference can happen and talking about that process is part of talking to them about how Scouts is different than Cubs. 

[qwazse]

Crossovers individually demonstrate their skills to the Troop Guide, Instructor, or Patrol Leader. AOL are treated with the same regard as other new scouts.

[Eagle94-A1]

I am with @qwazse on this, they are just like any other new Scout, although they SHOULD (emphasis) be able to do it quickly as @BAJ has stated. However I know  the Pandaemic has really screwed things up. We got two new Scouts from my old pack, and both had my middle son's WDL as their WDL. NEITHER ONE OF THEM WAS FULLY PREPARED DUE TO COVID! (again emphasis). The WDL even apologized to me about not having his guys fully prepared this time around, and said they did their  best to meet the requirements for AOL and cross over on schedule. This is not a problem for my troop as we do not believe in the FIRST CLASS FIRST YEAR horsehockey, but instead focus on being a hiking, camping. and now biking troop. We also beleive advancement is fully on the Scout and they should advance at their own pace. But it has been interesting with these 2.

The Webelos Program is a big help for transitioning, and you really need the full 18-24 months to prepare them, and more importantly the parents/grandparents.

In pre-Covid times I've heard of some units conducting a SM Conference just prior to or after the Cross Over so they can get their rank at the next meeting. Other units has them work on the Scout Rank at the first meeting. Again my troop is somewhat old school, when the Scouts wants to advance, he talks to the SPL or an adult to sign off. We are slowly, working on letting PLs being able to sign off on advancement (that's my goal.) So if takes them 6+ months, it takes them 6+ months.

[CynicalScouter]

11 hours ago, 5thGenTexan said:

Scouting Adventure and Scout look to be the same requirements aside from the Scoutmasters conference.  Generally.... do the new Scouts who earned AOL repeat and get the requirements for Scout signed off or just go straight to the Scoutmasters conference?

No. BSA requires that the crossover Cub Scouts (AoL is a RANK, Webelos is a DEN), now Scouts, BSA scouts, demonstrate all the elements. The first words of the Scout rank requirement are.

Quote

All requirements for the Scout rank must be completed as a member of a troop or as a Lone Scout. If you have already completed these requirements as part of the Webelos Scouting Adventure, simply demonstrate your knowledge or skills to your Scoutmaster or other designated leader after joining the troop.

That said, the key to the two-year Webelos program is that 80-90% of the program is repeated in the first three ranks of Scouts, BSA.

Scout Rank = Scouting Adventure + Outdoor Adventurer (Outdoor Code) + Cyber Chip

Tenderfoot Rank  = Building a Better World + Outdoor Adventurer + Cast Iron Chef + Scouting Adventure + Scouting Adventure + Stronger, Faster, Higher + portions of Castaway

And so on. A well trained, well developed crossover Cub Scout who has earned both the Webelos and Arrow of Light ranks should be (aside from time requirements) able to make Tenderfoot the day they crossover.

Edited June 6, 2021 by CynicalScouter

[5thGenTexan]

The different thing we have than "normal" is along with the girls, the adults are kinda new at this as well. Particularly me.   And we don't have any PL yet.  We do have two girls with AOL though, but I know for my daughter is been a year or so while we have been trying to get this together.  What I was thinking in my mind and having them do it all like they "dont know" may be best and do things more quickly with the next crossovers after we have our ducks in a row.

[CynicalScouter]

2 hours ago, CynicalScouter said:

Cub Scouts (AoL is a RANK, Webelos is a DEN),

I should clarify.

AoL is a RANK

Webelos may refer (in context) to the DEN or the RANK, depending.

[qwazse]

@5thGenTexan, are these girls starting a new troop, or crossing over into an existing troop of girls?

Edited June 6, 2021 by qwazse

[yknot]

This is something I had trouble with with my last AOL den. They were very well prepared for cross over.  The Troop though went through Scout very laboriously with a couple of fun exceptions. Then, all cross overs had to sign up for a Dan Beard program at summer camp, which the kids started calling Dan Bored, and did a lot of the same stuff all over again. The Troop lost about a third of the boys that first fall because they were bored stinkless. I think it's important to honor the progression but also realize it can seem very repetitive and boring to 10 and 11 year old kids. People have talked about kids burning out on cubs and I think some of the repetitiveness, especially the last 18 months in cubs and the first year in troop, is one reason why. 

 

[5thGenTexan]

2 hours ago, qwazse said:

@5thGenTexan, are these girls starting a new troop, or crossing over into an existing troop of girls?

We are starting a brand new Troop.  2 of em will have AOL and 3 do not.

[Eagle94-A1]

2 hours ago, yknot said:

The Troop though went through Scout very laboriously with a couple of fun exceptions. Then, all cross overs had to sign up for a Dan Beard program at summer camp, which the kids started calling Dan Bored, and did a lot of the same stuff all over again.

THIS is why hate having advancement as the focus of the program instead of FUN AND ADVENTURE!. 

And after my two older sons' experiences with First Year camper programs, I will not force a Scout to do it. Oldest was helping Scouts in his "patrol" out at FYC. Camp middle son went to divided their program into a Tenderfoot & Second Class  session and a First Class session. He and his buddies were bored with the First Class session, but the new guys from the other pack were overwhelmed.

Summer Camp, as it is currently done,  needs to be individualized to the wants and needs of the Scout.

 

[qwazse]

3 hours ago, 5thGenTexan said:

We are starting a brand new Troop.  2 of em will have AOL and 3 do not.

With a start-up (especially with adults trying to get in the groove), I would proceed in a what that doesn’t suck the joy of scouting out of the room:

• The crossovers should start the fun stuff of forming a patrol including electing a PL.
• Start or end meetings with pledge of allegiance, scout oath, law, and outdoor code.
• Pick MBs to earn at summer camp. Or, if most of the scouts have interest pick an MB to invite guest speakers for during a meeting.

If you think the PL is responsible, she could sign off when her mates demonstrate skills. And the SM can sign off on her demonstration of skills.

Tell the scouts if they want to elect a different PL, they may do so.

[qwazse]

Also, some fine print that scouts and scouters find useful:

Quote

Notes: The requirements for Scout, Tenderfoot, Second Class, and First Class ranks may be worked on simultaneously; however, these ranks must be earned in sequence.

What that means: not everybody has to sign off on requirements in the order presented in the handbook. One scout might want to master lashings, another map and compass, another cooking.  You might find one of yours has forgotten all of the memorization. Tell her, “That’s okay. We’ll come back to it when you want ovals to sew on your shirt. For now, is there some other skill in the handbook do you want to master?”

Get your adults focused on skills. The advancement will follow.

[qwazse]

On 6/6/2021 at 11:40 AM, 5thGenTexan said:

The different thing we have than "normal" is along with the girls, the adults are kinda new at this as well. Particularly me.   ...

One more thought ... maybe have an adult skills challenge. Put up a wall chart of requirements for you all. That way the scouts know that you are trying to learn this stuff too -- and they aren't even getting a patch for it. Include the BSA-required trainings as well. I was surprised how much it meant to some of the boys that we went through Scoutmaster training (of course, that came with a patch).

Have your SM and ASM(s) signed up for Introduction to Outdoor Leader Skills? That's a challenge for most of us to fit in our busy schedules. So, getting them to commit to it is important.

As you've experienced, Wood Badge isn't for everyone. But, keep an open mind and clear any road blocks hindering the SM attending within a year or two.

[5thGenTexan]

16 minutes ago, qwazse said:

One more thought ... maybe have an adult skills challenge. Put up a wall chart of requirements for you all. That way the scouts know that you are trying to learn this stuff too -- and they aren't even getting a patch for it. Include the BSA-required trainings as well. I was surprised how much it meant to some of the boys that we went through Scoutmaster training (of course, that came with a patch).

Have your SM and ASM(s) signed up for Introduction to Outdoor Leader Skills? That's a challenge for most of us to fit in our busy schedules. So, getting them to commit to it is important.

As you've experienced, Wood Badge isn't for everyone. But, keep an open mind and clear any road blocks hindering the SM attending within a year or two.

What you quoted... I think I may need to clarify a bit.   Experienced in dealing with brand new Scouts with little to no experience.  Me for example, I am going to have to work VERY hard not to let my Cub Scout Leader come out and do it for them.  Does that make sense?

I was / am a Cub Scout, Boy Scout, and an Adult leader for 5 years.  Another leader is a WBer as well as ASM in a boy troop.  I dont think we have anyone without any Scouting experience.  

 

I don't want to do "Webelos 3" for any longer than need be.  Thats my big concern here.

 

As far as me and WB.  I am not totally writing that off.  It was right for me then, not forever.  I have realized that.  I need to figure out a way to make that work