Michigan AG Investigating Abuse Claims in BSA

[fred8033]

15 hours ago, Eagle1993 said:

... charges may be coming soon in 1.

Will criminal charges affect the lawsuit?  Would insurance companies use a criminal conviction or trial as proof that the damage was not covered? 

BSA's current insurance is general liability; not covering criminal acts.  BSA site:   "The general liability policy does not provide indemnification or defense coverage to those individuals who commit intentional and criminal acts. The Boy Scouts of America does not have an insurance policy that provides defense for situations involving allegations of intentional and criminal acts."        https://www.scouting.org/health-and-safety/gss/gss10/

I'm not sure what past insurance was like, but I would expect the policies would be similar.  Also, I'm not sure if BSA is still insured or if it's just the individuals.  ... I find I only understand insurance after-the-fact.
 

[Eagle1993]

3 hours ago, fred8033 said:

Will criminal charges affect the lawsuit?  Would insurance companies use a criminal conviction or trial as proof that the damage was not covered? 

BSA's current insurance is general liability; not covering criminal acts.  BSA site:   "The general liability policy does not provide indemnification or defense coverage to those individuals who commit intentional and criminal acts. The Boy Scouts of America does not have an insurance policy that provides defense for situations involving allegations of intentional and criminal acts."        https://www.scouting.org/health-and-safety/gss/gss10/

I'm not sure what past insurance was like, but I would expect the policies would be similar.  Also, I'm not sure if BSA is still insured or if it's just the individuals.  ... I find I only understand insurance after-the-fact.
 

Unless they charge Scout Executives I doubt it.    In the past, with respect to the Catholic Church, and the Mich AG has targeted the actual individuals not leadership.  In addition, this is a small number vs the claims.  

 

[ThenNow]

13 minutes ago, Eagle1993 said:

Unless they charge Scout Executives I doubt it.    In the past, with respect to the Catholic Church, and the Mich AG has targeted the actual individuals not leadership.  In addition, this is a small number vs the claims.  

This raises a curiosity I’ve had. How many POCs implicate professional Scouters as either primary abusers or abettors. I’m sure that data could be pulled, but to my knowledge it’s not one of the data fields currently identified. I am glad someone is doing this by way of a clean up. Fred, Qwazse, Skeptic and others have been hammering home the need to pursue perpetrators and there is little else being done by way of a look back. I wonder how many people subject to prosecution are buried within those Proofs of Claim.

Edited December 21, 2021 by ThenNow

[Eagle94-A1]

2 hours ago, ThenNow said:

I wonder how many people subject to prosecution are buried within those Proofs of Claim.

Add me to the list. I want the alleged perps to have a fair trial, and if guilty,  incarcerated .

But remember some victims are against using their POCs  to go after abusers. There was a discussion on this topic a few months back.

[ThenNow]

17 minutes ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

But remember some victims are against using their POCs  to go after abusers. There was a discussion on this topic a few months back.

Not this one. It was my singular motive when all of this surfaced for me 20 years ago. He escaped by a whisker when younger men were unable to step forward and testify, not yet to the point of full recognition of what he did. As I’ve said, I bet there are at least 5 of us among the survivor claimants. 10+ wouldn’t surprise me one itty bitty bit. I spent years dreaming of other means to hold him to account. If several of my family members where unleashed, it wouldn’t be pretty. I won’t risk identifying their professions, but let’s say it would be precise and untraceable. Ok. Sorry. I guess it’s not too deeply buried. It came up with them again when I was completing my POC. A, “Just say the word,” scenario. “No,” was the word that day.

Edited December 21, 2021 by ThenNow

[MattR]

2 hours ago, ThenNow said:

Not this one. It was my singular motive when all of this surfaced for me 20 years ago. He escaped by a whisker when younger men were unable to step forward and testify, not yet to the point of full recognition of what he did. As I’ve said, I bet there are at least 5 of us among the survivor claimants. 10+ wouldn’t surprise me one itty bitty bit. I spent years dreaming of other means to hold him to account. If several of my family members where unleashed, it wouldn’t be pretty. I won’t risk identifying their professions, but let’s say it would be precise and untraceable. Ok. Sorry. I guess it’s not too deeply buried. It came up with them again when I was completing my POC. A, “Just say the word,” scenario. “No,” was the word that day.

First of all, it's good that you did hold everyone back. But when will the criminal SOL rules change? We've talked so much about civil SOL laws but not much about criminal. I would have thought those would change first but I don't know much about any of this.

[ThenNow]

5 hours ago, MattR said:

First of all, it's good that you did hold everyone back. But when will the criminal SOL rules change? We've talked so much about civil SOL laws but not much about criminal. I would have thought those would change first but I don't know much about any of this.

Not sure what you mean by the first sentence. I believe criminal can’t be changed to open retroactively. Several experts over in the other thread.

[elitts]

On 12/20/2021 at 12:49 PM, Eagle1993 said:

The Michigan AG now has 5 open cases into BSA claims, charges may be coming soon in 1.

Nessel: Five investigations looking into Boy Scouts of America claims (detroitnews.com)

 

That's going to be a big "nothingburger" when it's all done.  Nessel is as politically motivated as an A.G. gets and while she may find someone she can eventually file charges against by twisting and warping the intent of the law, in the end the most we'll see is someone pleading to an inconsequential misdemeanor in order to save on legal fees.  At least as far as "investigating" the BSA, LCs and COs.  Though if she manages to dig out a few actual perpetrators, that would be awesome.

18 hours ago, MattR said:

First of all, it's good that you did hold everyone back. But when will the criminal SOL rules change? We've talked so much about civil SOL laws but not much about criminal. I would have thought those would change first but I don't know much about any of this.

I think the logic on SOL rule changes tends to revolve around "how far back can we realistically go and actually have cases we can prosecute beyond a reasonable doubt?"  The further back you go with memories, the harder it is to have witnesses with reliable memories.

[Eagle1993]

55 minutes ago, elitts said:

That's going to be a big "nothingburger" when it's all done.  Nessel is as politically motivated as an A.G. gets and while she may find someone she can eventually file charges against by twisting and warping the intent of the law, in the end the most we'll see is someone pleading to an inconsequential misdemeanor in order to save on legal fees.  At least as far as "investigating" the BSA, LCs and COs.  Though if she manages to dig out a few actual perpetrators, that would be awesome.

I think the logic on SOL rule changes tends to revolve around "how far back can we realistically go and actually have cases we can prosecute beyond a reasonable doubt?"  The further back you go with memories, the harder it is to have witnesses with reliable memories.

This is what she did in a similar case.  It was felony rape, sexual assaults, etc.

https://www.michigan.gov/som/0,4669,7-192-47796-542878--,00.html

[ThenNow]

5 hours ago, elitts said:

 

On 12/20/2021 at 11:49 AM, Eagle1993 said:

The Michigan AG now has 5 open cases into BSA claims, charges may be coming soon in 1.

Nessel: Five investigations looking into Boy Scouts of America claims (detroitnews.com)

 

Expand  

That's going to be a big "nothingburger" when it's all done

 

See below…

4 hours ago, Eagle1993 said:

This is what she did in a similar case.  It was felony rape, sexual assaults, etc.

https://www.michigan.gov/som/0,4669,7-192-47796-542878--,00.html

Well, based on the RCC results, I’ll peg it somewhere north of a Big Mac Daddy with the flame-broiled prospect to serve up a Whopper.

[elitts]

14 hours ago, Eagle1993 said:

This is what she did in a similar case.  It was felony rape, sexual assaults, etc.

https://www.michigan.gov/som/0,4669,7-192-47796-542878--,00.html

That's about what I'd expect here too, though perhaps with a higher perp count.  And I don't have any issue at all with scouring the records for abusers that can still be charged.  But it does aggravate me when I see her talking about her investigation "Targeting the BSA".  Targeting the Catholic Churches made sense given the involvement of the hierarchy as a whole in the ongoing activities of the priesthood.  And personally, I find it dismaying that so few Bishops and Cardinals have faced more than public shame for actively protecting priests and recirculating them into positions where they could continue to abuse kids.  But that's vastly different from the situation with the BSA.

[ThenNow]

12 minutes ago, elitts said:

"Targeting the BSA"

She’s using a term of art per US Attorneys Manual. She likely has a boatload of information and evidence at this point. I am curious what was gathered through their 1-800 campaign. Anyway, the USAM defines three classes of people -- those who are "witnesses" to an event, and those who are either the "target" or "subject" of an ongoing criminal investigation. USAM section 9-11.151:

A "target" is a person as to whom the prosecutor or the grand jury has substantial evidence linking him or her to the commission of a crime and who, in the judgment of the prosecutor, is a putative defendant. An officer or employee of an organization which is a target is not automatically considered a target even if such officer's or employee's conduct contributed to the commission of the crime by the target organization. The same lack of automatic target status holds true for organizations which employ, or employed, an officer or employee who is a target.

A "subject" of an investigation is a person whose conduct is within the scope of the grand jury's investigation.

[RememberSchiff]

Mark Chapman, the first man to be charged by Michigan AG's investigation into the Boy Scouts of America, has been found fit to stand trial. His probable cause conference is set for June 29 at 8 a.m.

Chapman was earlier charged with eight counts of second-degree criminal sexual conduct (CSC) and two counts of first-degree CSC against two victims.

More at sources:

https://www.wlns.com/news/michigan/man-charged-in-boy-scouts-investigation-can-stand-trial/

https://www.9and10news.com/2022/06/10/man-charged-in-boy-scouts-investigation-found-competent-to-stand-trial/

 

Edited June 10, 2022 by RememberSchiff

[RememberSchiff]

Update 10/31/2022, 16th Circuit Court in Macomb County, Michigan

Mark Chapman has plead guilty to first and second-degree criminal sexual conduct charges and is scheduled to be sentenced on Dec. 14.

The guilty plea for the first-degree CSC charge comes with a sentence agreement of 12 to 20 years in prison, lifetime sex offender registration, lifetime electronic monitoring and sex offender counseling.

The guilty plea for the second-degree CSC charge comes with a sentence agreement of 10 to 15 years in prison, lifetime sex offender registration and sex offender counseling.

More at source links:

https://upnorthlive.com/news/local/guilty-plea-in-boy-scouts-criminal-sexual-conduct-case

https://www.fox17online.com/news/local-news/michigan/nessel-announces-1st-conviction-in-boy-scouts-sex-assault-investigation

More background

Chapman, 51, landed on the radar of the Michigan State Police after he was identified as an alleged predator by a person who called Michigan AG Nessel’s tip line last year for Boy Scouts sex abuse victims.

Police zeroed in on Chapman, who had been living in New York since 2007, in June 2021 after sifting through the 5,000 Boy Scouts claims that had been sent from Michigan.

At the time, Chapman was serving a nine year sentence at the Mohawk Correctional Facility in Rome, New York, for abusing a 9-year-old boy. And Michigan State Police took custody of Chapman in March the minute he was paroled.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/former-michigan-boy-scouts-leader-pleads-guilty-sexually-abusing-two-b-rcna55043

Edited November 1, 2022 by RememberSchiff
added another link

[RememberSchiff]

Update: 12/14/2022

Mark Chapman, 51, of New York was sentenced to two sentences of 12-20 years and 10-15 years, concurrently in prison. He was the first person convicted in the ongoing Boy Scouts of America (BSA) investigation.

The sentences also include lifetime sex offender registration, lifetime electronic monitoring, and sex offender counseling.

"Regardless how much time has passed, or how difficult the circumstances of a case may be, I am committed to seeing justice delivered for survivors of sexual assault," Michigan Attorney General Dana Nessel said.  "Today’s sentencing sends a clear message that those who prey upon children will be punished. As our review of allegations made against adults in the Boy Scouts of America continues, I encourage those with information to come forward and share their story with the Department of Attorney General."

More at sources:

https://patch.com/michigan/stclairshores/ex-macomb-co-boy-scout-leader-sentenced-prison-molesting-boys

https://www.metrotimes.com/news/man-sentenced-in-michigan-for-abusing-children-while-he-was-in-the-boy-scouts-and-lds-church-31851464

https://www.fox2detroit.com/news/former-roseville-boy-scout-leader-sentenced-to-prison-for-sexually-assaulting-child

Edited December 14, 2022 by RememberSchiff