Chapter 11 announced - Part 3 - BSA's Toggle Plan

[Eagle1993]

1 hour ago, CynicalScouter said:

2) I think the idea with the new toggle plan is to legal the legal status of the LCs alone, estimate abuse claims based on a point system. That just leaves the question of the HA bases.

The issue with the toggle plan is that there are multiple lawyers filing documents with the court that they plan to have their clients reject all plans until the BSA includes a Chapter 7 proposal that includes 100% of assets from local councils.  Their theory is that since in the charter agreement if a charter is not renewed, 100% of the council assets are returned to National.  Therefore, if National goes Chapter 7, all councils will have to return their assets to National (as there is no National to renew their charters).  So ... at that point, a Chapter 7 of National would be essentially a Chapter 7 of the entire BSA.

Now ... the judge needs to rule on the LCs and if they are fully independent even if National doesn't exist.  If she rules along those lines + rules on the HA bases (including Arrow WV) then I think we can finally start making progress.

I'm frustrated as I don't even see that on the docket.  Why is there no push to make these rulings?

In the mean time, the BSA is funding tax attorneys for our executives at $2K per month.  Sure, not a big $ amount, but all of these lawyer fees are bleeding BSA to death.  After spending >>$100M on lawyers, we are 14 months in and there has been no major decisions.

https://casedocs.omniagentsolutions.com/cmsvol2/pub_47373/887323_2654.pdf

 

[ThenNow]

8 hours ago, elitts said:

basically all of the victims tell you "it isn't about the money". 

I’m not sure where you heard that. Certainly not from me. Some fractional measure of compensation is pretty much all I have left to hope for out of the disaster this created for my family and me.

[1980Scouter]

So when is the next action in court going to happen on this case? I agree they need to move things along even if it means a bad outcome. Paying millions to attorneys to fight and make no progress is a waste of money that could go to the abuse victims.

[RememberSchiff]

Court Schedule link.

[ALongWalk]

I am busy raising money for the council right now. Not hearing much from the folks/businesses I call on about the issues but....it occurs to me that I am just asking for funds that are going to ultimately not help local scouting. 

Edited April 22, 2021 by ALongWalk

[CynicalScouter]

3 minutes ago, ALongWalk said:

it occurs to me that I am just asking for funds that are going to ultimately not help local scouting. 

Some will. Most probably will. But yes, a percent (how much? TBD) will likely be going to pay for the settlement and/or the legal fees associated with this mess.

The LCs that were telling people as recently as last year that "all local money stays local" were either a) being sold a bill of goods by National who in fact was until last fall touting that they would be able to cover everything or b) knew where this was heading and led people on.

Camps are getting sold left, right, and center. This is a bad, bad scene.

[Eagle1993]

54 minutes ago, ALongWalk said:

I am busy raising money for the council right now. Not hearing much from the folks/businesses I call on about the issues but....it occurs to me that I am just asking for funds that are going to ultimately not help local scouting. 

A council pitch I saw (when they explained their camp sale) stated 100% of Friends of Scouting money are restricted assets and cannot be used for the settlement.  Now, that is what is being pitched by a council, not sure if it will hold up in a court of law.

[jr56]

I must admit, I am seriously thinking about waiting  on any FOS contribution.  I am all for supporting Scouts, not some lawyers get rich quick scheme.

[CynicalScouter]

13 minutes ago, jr56 said:

not some lawyers get rich quick scheme.

So, sexual abuse is a lawyers' "get rich quick scheme"?

[vol_scouter]

14 hours ago, Eagle1993 said:

The issue with the toggle plan is that there are multiple lawyers filing documents with the court that they plan to have their clients reject all plans until the BSA includes a Chapter 7 proposal that includes 100% of assets from local councils.  Their theory is that since in the charter agreement if a charter is not renewed, 100% of the council assets are returned to National.  Therefore, if National goes Chapter 7, all councils will have to return their assets to National (as there is no National to renew their charters).  So ... at that point, a Chapter 7 of National would be essentially a Chapter 7 of the entire BSA.

Now ... the judge needs to rule on the LCs and if they are fully independent even if National doesn't exist.  If she rules along those lines + rules on the HA bases (including Arrow WV) then I think we can finally start making progress.

I'm frustrated as I don't even see that on the docket.  Why is there no push to make these rulings?

In the mean time, the BSA is funding tax attorneys for our executives at $2K per month.  Sure, not a big $ amount, but all of these lawyer fees are bleeding BSA to death.  After spending >>$100M on lawyers, we are 14 months in and there has been no major decisions.

https://casedocs.omniagentsolutions.com/cmsvol2/pub_47373/887323_2654.pdf

 

So how can assets from a Local Council (LC) go to the National Council (NC) if the NC has been liquidated?  That seems nonsensical.

Another point is that some states may contest assets going to the NC if the charter is not renewed.  Mine might be one.

Can the judge in this bankruptcy case actually have the authority to link the assets of a LC to the NC if the state disagrees.

Not trying to be argumentative since I am not an attorney but wonder if these are not impediments.

 

[CynicalScouter]

8 minutes ago, vol_scouter said:

So how can assets from a Local Council (LC) go to the National Council (NC) if the NC has been liquidated?  That seems nonsensical.

1) National issues annual charters to each LC.

2) If an LC fails to recharter, ALL assets of the LC revert to National. LC's do not have any choice in the matter.

Quote

Upon termination of a local council charter or dissolution of a council, all rights of management and ownership of local council property shall become vested in the National Council for use in accordance with the Rules and Regulations of the Corporation. Local council articles of incorporation and bylaws shall include or be revised to incorporate this provision at the time of chartering or the next charter renewal.

3) The timing would be that

FIRST: National terminates all LC charters directly or by failing to issue an annual renewal.

SECOND: The LCs must turn over/transfer all assets to National, per the above.

THIRD: National itself dissolves under Chapter 7, leaving the combined pot of National + LC assets to creditors.

Edited April 22, 2021 by CynicalScouter

[CynicalScouter]

14 minutes ago, vol_scouter said:

Another point is that some states may contest assets going to the NC if the charter is not renewed.  Mine might be one.

Every LC has a provision in their articles of incorporation that state, unequivocally, that if National refuses to renew the charter, the assets go to National.

Quote

Upon termination of a local council charter or dissolution of a council, all rights of management and ownership of local council property shall become vested in the National Council for use in accordance with the Rules and Regulations of the Corporation. Local council articles of incorporation and bylaws shall include or be revised to incorporate this provision at the time of chartering or the next charter renewal.

This is what the Kosnoffs of the world want and is the basis for their claim that, in the end, LCs are mere appendages of National, therefore ALL of the LC assets should be part of National's bankruptcy.

Edited April 22, 2021 by CynicalScouter

[Owls_are_cool]

16 minutes ago, jr56 said:

I must admit, I am seriously thinking about waiting  on any FOS contribution.  I am all for supporting Scouts, not some lawyers get rich quick scheme.

In my council, popcorn sales and FOS contributions at certain levels from a troop by April result in scout store discounts, camp discounts, and a number of leaders can go to summer camp with their scouts for free. It would be problematic if this fundraising and the "perks" that go with it had to be transferred to a victims fund. The result is charging all scouts and adults in my unit $30 a head to fund a victims fund. 

Personally, I am happy to invest in scouts, but if I am expected to bail out scouters responsible for abuse, I will no longer donate to FOS and instead donate directly to the troop. Scouts already do not like selling popcorn, so we'll fundraise in a different way, so the troop benefits 100%. 

[Owls_are_cool]

6 minutes ago, CynicalScouter said:

Every LC has a provision in their articles of incorporation that state, unequivocally, that if National refuses to renew the charter, the assets go to National.

That cannot be good for my council.

[CynicalScouter]

2 minutes ago, Owls_are_cool said:

That cannot be good for my council.

It isn't. That is why I said: this "toggle" plan by BSA leaves LCs in the lurch. This does NOT mean that BSA National wants to come down and take all LC assets. It means, however, that is what some of the lawyers for the abuse victims want.