Chapter 11 announced - Part 3 - BSA's Toggle Plan

[ThenNow]

13 minutes ago, Eagle1970 said:

how about if BSA sets aside and maintains a network of local and national campgrounds for the sole use of survivors?  I, for one, would eagerly enjoy the beauty of nature for a week or two per year at, say, Philmont-or even the local camps in my council (with 50 Amp full hookups, of course).  Actually, it would be somewhat healing for me AND would paint BSA in the light of acknowledging the facts and publicly welcoming the victims.

This is simply meant as a counter view presented by other victims. During preparations for the Miami mediation, it was suggested here that the parties meet at a camp or HAB. Some responded adamantly that the very last place on earth they would ever want to be is at a Boy Scout camp, office or facility of any kind. For many, this would be incredibly triggering and traumatic. I'm sure others, like you, would enjoy it tremendously, which is great. Just wanted to provide that bit of info from posts waaay back when.

[MattR]

15 minutes ago, Eagle1970 said:

I had an odd thought, last night.  Since there will never be enough money to compensate victims for what we have gone through, how about if BSA sets aside and maintains a network of local and national campgrounds for the sole use of survivors? 

I had the same thought months ago. If it could help then I'd be in favor.

Not sure about the electrical hook ups, though

[Eagle1970]

2 minutes ago, ThenNow said:

This is simply meant as a counter view presented by other victims. During preparations for the Miami mediation, it was suggested here that the parties meet at a camp or HAB. Some responded adamantly that the very last place on earth they would ever want to be is at a Boy Scout camp, office or facility of any kind. For many, this would be incredibly triggering and traumatic. I'm sure others, like you, would enjoy it tremendously, which is great. Just wanted to provide that bit of info from posts waaay back when.

And, in fact, I have no interest in returning to the camp I was abused at.  We did camp nearby it last week, and I could feel my blood pressure rise.  So I get it.  My idea is probably not practical, but I would really like to see BSA honor survivors somehow in this process, rather than just a minimal payout.

 

[ThenNow]

1 minute ago, Eagle1970 said:

And, in fact, I have no interest in returning to the camp I was abused at.  We did camp nearby it last week, and I could feel my blood pressure rise.  So I get it.  My idea is probably not practical, but I would really like to see BSA honor survivors somehow in this process, rather than just a minimal payout.

I wish that, too, if there is some way to do it. In the meantime, I will continue to press for cold, hard cash at every turn.

I'm an odd duck (news flash!), but I actually went to my primary camp to scope things out and confirm my recollections after I filed my Proof of Claim. I happened to be in that neighborhood and went by myself. It was bittersweet and complicated, but affirming. Everything was as and where I said it was. I had even drawn and submitted maps with my POC. Until I did that, I had nightmares about having gotten things wrong, all rooted in the constant self-doubt that comes with my version of the ongoing aftermath. 

[johnsch322]

38 minutes ago, Eagle1970 said:

I had an odd thought, last night.  Since there will never be enough money to compensate victims for what we have gone through, how about if BSA sets aside and maintains a network of local and national campgrounds for the sole use of survivors?  I, for one, would eagerly enjoy the beauty of nature for a week or two per year at, say, Philmont-or even the local camps in my council (with 50 Amp full hookups, of course).  Actually, it would be somewhat healing for me AND would paint BSA in the light of acknowledging the facts and publicly welcoming the victims.

I do not believe that could ever come to fruition.  Could you imagine the stories that would be told around the campfires.  I am sure the Boy Scouts would not welcome any of those conversations on their properties.

[ThenNow]

1 hour ago, T2Eagle said:

So, one of the things alluded to in the Ad Hoc statement that is not widely known, is that not all by-laws and charter agreements are alike:  "any such contractual interest – and the defenses thereto – also varies with the terms of the myriad organizational documents of individual Local Councils, as well as with the particular laws of jurisdictions throughout the United States."

I'm going to look into this a bit more. Thanks for the info.

 

1 hour ago, T2Eagle said:

The BRG view of what constitutes my council's unrestricted assets is almost certainly different than what my council would say is their unrestricted assets.  Both parties are making their statements in good faith, but they are using very divergent assumptions to arrive at them.

Yes. The TCC acknowledged they recognize some assets are restricted. Oddly, the AHC cited to some of the camps the TCC excluded from available assets as ones the TCC sought to include. The AHC may need to pay closer attention.

[ThenNow]

34 minutes ago, johnsch322 said:

Could you imagine the stories that would be told around the campfires.  I am sure the Boy Scouts would not welcome any of those conversations on their properties.

Why do you say that? Is it because the BSA would not want the air, ground and spirit of the woods further "contaminated" with tales of sexual abuse? I am not being attacking or snarky, it's just the only reason I can come up with in my little brain. That and, possibly, fear of bad press. I'm really trying to understand why someone might feel that way if it provided a measure of healing and some small recompense.

[johnsch322]

5 minutes ago, ThenNow said:

Why do you say that? Is it because the BSA would not want the air, ground and spirit of the woods further "contaminated" with tales of sexual abuse? I am not being attacking or snarky, it's just the only reason I can come up with in my little brain. That and, possibly, fear of bad press. I'm really trying to understand why someone might feel that way if it provided a measure of healing and some small recompense.

It is OK to be snarky and I don't feel attacked. 

I feel like the Boy Scouts will not want any survivor to come around if and when there is some kind of conclusion for them to what has occurred.  When they went thru the risk analysis and consulted with their lawyers and most likely the insurance carriers before entering bankruptcy I don't believe they foresaw the firestorm that has been been started.  I think they may have predicted 5 to 10 thousand abuse survivors (and they also reached out themselves saying they wanted survivors to be taken care of with therapy etc.) which they could throw the 125 million or so and probably had already been in discussion with Hartford for possibly another 250 million and that would be roughly 50k or so to each claimant and that would be worst possible scenario.  Instead they opened up Pandora's Box, the Genie got of the bottle and now the lid won't close and the Genie is going nowhere.  Now they are kind of stuck with a legal strategy they had developed early on and it doesn't fit the new reality.  I am confident that in the onset they had reassured the LC's that they would not be affected or at least minimally affected.  Now there it is the threat of the "toggle plan" which by the Boy Scouts own admission will not be good for some LC's as there will be LC's that go bankrupt.  in short it is kind of like getting a divorce you tell the spouse don't worry I will take care of you and by the time the courts get done you barely have a pot to piss in and you hate her with all your heart.

[ThenNow]

18 minutes ago, johnsch322 said:

It is OK to be snarky and I don't feel attacked.

Good deal.

 

19 minutes ago, johnsch322 said:

I feel like the Boy Scouts will not want any survivor to come around if and when there is some kind of conclusion for them to what has occurred.

Most may not be aware, but there are more than a few survivors who are active Scouters. What becomes of them? Imagine what this is like for them right now?

 

20 minutes ago, johnsch322 said:

Instead they opened up Pandora's Box, the Genie got of the bottle and now the lid won't close and the Genie is going nowhere.  Now they are kind of stuck with a legal strategy they had developed early on and it doesn't fit the new reality. 

Agreed. I said much the same thing a few times. Not sure that matters, but want to confirm my agreement.

 

20 minutes ago, johnsch322 said:

in short it is kind of like getting a divorce you tell the spouse don't worry I will take care of you and by the time the courts get done you barely have a pot to piss in and you hate her with all your heart.

That would make it hard to believe in the sincerity of any resolve that comes our way. Maybe that's why the TCC consistently reminds us to "Remember, this is just a business transaction."

[ThenNow]

2 hours ago, qwazse said:

If, legally, a survivor could give us a walk-through, he/she would have been welcomed  -- and supported as best we amateurs could.

What do you mean by "if, legally"?

2 hours ago, qwazse said:

A subsequent video training involved interviews with survivors.

BSA survivors?

2 hours ago, qwazse said:

engaging survivors in practical ways would empower future scouters to create an environment that reduces risk even more than the current 100-fold below what children face elsewhere.

I would sign up for this.

Sorry if this is getting back into improving YPT. Maybe I should go to that thread, if it's still holding together.

[Eagle1993]

Hearing to be held May 19th .. more info below.

Link - May 19th hearing

 

[Eagle1970]

There are a bunch of Insurers mentioned that appear to be filing motions.  To what extent do these companies have exposure?

[johnsch322]

Within the filing:

https://casedocs.omniagentsolutions.com/cmsvol2/pub_47373/213bd53f-b44f-45c9-97fc-246bcb7ca06b_4108.pdf

there are 134 pages of local council insurance policies.

With that many from numerous insurers I surmise their is major exposure.  Quite possibly why the insurers want to extend the exclusivity period for BSA.  

[RememberSchiff]

Late Sunday evening and just days ahead of the Wed hearing, the BSA submitted a third? reorganization plan with the financial details of local councils which previous plans lacked.

“We want to underscore that local councils are legally separate, distinct, and financially independent from the national organization,” the BSA said in a statement Monday. “Additionally, the data included in these filings is not necessarily indicative of the assets available for contribution to the trust.”

“Local councils are thoughtfully considering how they can meaningfully contribute to the trust and ensure that Scouting can continue its vital mission in their area into the future,” the BSA said.

“We are deeply disappointed that Century Insurance Group, the insurer to which national BSA and local councils paid hundreds of thousands of dollars over the course of decades, is refusing to contribute its due to the trust or participate in mediation in a meaningful way,” the BSA said. “Instead of working cooperatively to reach an agreement to compensate survivors, Century appears to be engaging in tactics calculated to slow down the legal process.”

Century filed a motion to postpone the May 19 hearing for two weeks to review this revised plan.

More details at source

https://wgnradio.com/news/national/details-on-local-council-finances-filed-in-boy-scouts-case/

[Eagle1993]

Here is the file with all council assets detailed by the BSA.  It also includes camp by camp value plus details how many claims are NOT time barred.  Just search any council.

BSA - Proposed Amended DS (omniagentsolutions.com)