Chapter 11 announced - Part 3 - BSA's Toggle Plan

[CynicalScouter]

13 minutes ago, fred8033 said:

I really do suggest you lock these threads.  It helps no one.

Or, last I checked, absolutely no one was compelling you to pay any attention to these threads or post to them. In the extreme should you find what I am posting utterly abhorrent, there's a handy dandy "Ignore User" button.

In the absence of ANY information from BSA, the LCs, or the COs (who for good, clear, and obvious reasons are not about to talk to the press about pending litigation) this remains the only forum out there, literally, for anyone to get any information about what is going on in the bankruptcy.

It's the moderator(s) pond, and I'm a guest swimming in it, but I strongly urge against shutting this down.

Edited May 12, 2021 by CynicalScouter

[RobertCalifornia]

I’ve scoured the Internet for information. This forum is it.

Where else would/should one discuss it?

[1980Scouter]

Agreed this is the only place to find out what is going on without reading thousands of pages of court documents.

[jr56]

True, but people don't need to slam others who don't agree 100% with their point of view.

[Eagledad]

1 hour ago, RobertCalifornia said:

I’ve scoured the Internet for information. This forum is it.

Where else would/should one discuss it?

When a poster threatens, DARES, or intimidate the list to agree with their opinion, then something has to change.

Barry

[MacBrave]

1 hour ago, RobertCalifornia said:

I’ve scoured the Internet for information. This forum is it.

Where else would/should one discuss it?

Not exactly a typical internet forum but there is this:  http://scouts-l.net/

 

[CynicalScouter]

11 minutes ago, Eagledad said:

When a poster threatens, DARES, or intimidate the list to agree with their opinion, then something has to change.

I will challenge the notion that the mild discomfort of some is the same or equivalent "hell" (word used) as a child sexually assaulted.

I will dare anyone with even a modicum of humanity to challenge that premise.

This bankruptcy is about scout leaders turning a blind eye, focusing MORE on protecting their precious BSA and its reputation than actually doing something. And thanks to the release of the IV files we can see it: BSA leaders from National all the way down, IN WRITING, attempting to coverup or cover over THOUSANDS of instances of the sexual abuse of children.

So you are darn right, I'll DARE someone to stand there and claim their discomfort is a "hell" comparable to that suffered by these CHILDREN (at the time).

Every time.

Edited May 12, 2021 by CynicalScouter

[mrjohns2]

18 minutes ago, CynicalScouter said:

And thanks to the release of the IV files we can see it: BSA leaders from National all the way down, IN WRITING, attempting to coverup or cover over THOUSANDS of instances of the sexual abuse of children.

I have read 5 of the current letters and maybe 25 of the files released 10 years ago. In none of these cases have I seen any attempts to coverup or cover over. Can you back up these claims with a few examples?

[CynicalScouter]

9 minutes ago, mrjohns2 said:

I have read 5 of the current letters and maybe 25 of the files released 10 years ago. In none of these cases have I seen any attempts to coverup or cover over. Can you back up these claims with a few examples?

A recently released letter by a Louisiana BSA executive to the BSA's national personnel division revealed: "This subject and Scouts were not prosecuted to save the name of Scouting."^[30][31] The files revealed cases of collusion between the BSA and the Justice System, as in a 1962 Johnston PA case^[32] where a BSA leader pleaded guilty to "serious morals" violations involving Scouts. A local Scouting executive learned of the abuse from a member of the local executive board who served as both mayor and police chief. Newspapers failed to report the connection to the Scouts because, as the executive wrote to BSA national's personnel division in explanation, "No mention of Scouting was involved in the case in as much as two of the three judges who pronounced sentence are members of our Executive Board".^[33] Among the files include a 1972 BSA executive writing "I would like to let this case drop ... One father has threatened legal action which could only injure the Boy Scouts of America. My personal opinion in this particular case is, ‘If it don’t stink, don’t stir it.’"^[34][35]

9 minutes ago, mrjohns2 said:

I have read 5 of the current letters and maybe 25 of the files released 10 years ago. In none of these cases have I seen any attempts to coverup or cover over. Can you back up these claims with a few examples?

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2012/oct/21/online-files-show-scouts-hushed-abuse-cases/
 

Quote

The organization’s closely guarded “ineligible volunteer” files show that — at least from 1959 to 1985 — more than a few of the 1,247 men suspected of child abuse were not brought to justice or even kicked out of the Scouts.

“This subject and Scouts were not prosecuted to save the name of Scouting,” a Louisiana Scouting executive wrote to higher-ups in 1965. The “subject,” a 31-year-old Scoutmaster, had just admitted to law enforcement officials that he had sexually abused three brothers more than once, said the Associated Press, which obtained a copy of the 14,500-page file a few weeks ago.

In another case, in 1972, a Pennsylvania Scouting executive urged BSA headquarters to drop the case against a suspected abuser because he was undergoing professional treatment. “If it don’t stink, don’t stir it,” the local executive wrote, according to the AP.

“You do not keep secrets hidden about dangers to children,” said attorney Kelly Clark, whose law firm, O’Donnell, Clark and Crew, released the file online Thursday after receiving permission from the Oregon Supreme Court.

In other words, BSA National leaders knew, and didn't care. They were just focused on maintaining the program.

Sorta like how people are calling their minor discomfort in their programs now "hell".

No sir. Hell is being sexually abused as a child.

Edited May 12, 2021 by CynicalScouter

[mrjohns2]

The examples you give are from the news and not directly from the IV files. 

[CynicalScouter]

Just now, mrjohns2 said:

The examples you give are from the news and not directly from the IV files. 

They are quoting the IV files.

[mrjohns2]

5 minutes ago, CynicalScouter said:

Sorta like how people are calling their minor discomfort in their programs now "hell".

This is at least the second time someone calls the destruction of someone’s life work a minor discomfort. It is not. To say otherwise is to not understand loss. It is also not kind. 

[CynicalScouter]

1 minute ago, mrjohns2 said:

It is also not kind. 

Neither is downplaying sexual abuse of minors or justifying BSA's actions in covering it up for decades.

[mrjohns2]

1 minute ago, CynicalScouter said:

Neither is downplaying sexual abuse of minors or justifying BSA's actions in covering it up for decades.

I agree, but to continue to throw garbage doesn’t help anyone. Who in this forum has said that is ok? I believe some of the frustration that some are seeing with the BSA national leadership are being taken out on those that are committed to the program. 
 

I still insist the loss of the program is not minor. I have never compared it to being abused, because it can’t be. To say the loss of the program, or a camp, is minor is not not understand the time and blood that has gone into it over the years. 

[CynicalScouter]

For those wanting to claim that their minor discomfort is a "hell", here's just a cursory review of the letters from sexual abuse survivors submitted to the court and filed today. To stay on the good side of the mods, I will NOT be giving details (which are redacted anyway).

Spelling and typos in originals. THIS is hell. *deleted by Moderator per previous restrictions on comments*

1. Age (at time of abuse) 13: "I deeply resent the implication that our claims are false or that they should not be taken seriously."
2. Age 7: "Boy Scouts in my mind need to be stoped. BSA makes money from there victims. They robbed so many children of their inosence."
3. Age 13-16:  "The BSA needs to be held accountable for all the sex abuse cases."
4. Age of abuse unlisted: "The pain is too intest and I will never know what a normal life is like..."
5. Age of abuse unlisted: "I am looking for justice and financial re-imbursement for me & all boy scouts that have been abused ASAP."
6. Age of abuse unlisted: "There is nothing that the BSA can do to make things right or take back those horrible things that I experienced along with thousands of other children, but they can and should at the very least be held accountable for allowing these things to take place without taking any action on either my behalf, nor all the others who endured similar fates."
7. Age 14: "Now I wait to see if something could be done."
8. Age of abuse unknown: "They [BSA] kept silent. More & more children became victims. Now they refuse to take responsibility."
9. Age 8: "only one that knows about [the abuse] is the attorney [and] my wife and who ever is reading this im hoping by coming forward wit this it will be helping other kids to be safe so they dont have to go through the thing i did."
10. Age of abuse unknown: "They need to be held accountable for what they have done."
11. Age of abuse unknown: "I know that when this lawsuit came out I didn't get excited for money, or feel I was finally going to be free of the memories and the nightmares, I just thought: Finally the BSA will admit the truth and make it right"

 

Edited May 16, 2021 by elitts
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