Chapter 11 announced - Part 3 - BSA's Toggle Plan

[Muttsy]

Interesting. Technically, BSA no longer enjoys exclusivity. It expired May 19th while it’s extension motion is still pending. 
 

Who is in control of the plan makes a huge difference. Right now we are in a strange limbo. We’ll see what the court does this Friday. 

[ThenNow]

On 5/29/2021 at 4:29 PM, Muttsy said:

Patrick Boyle's 1992 book Scouts Honor is essential reading to understand how it all came to this. It was the institutional instinct to conceal, minimize and deny. 

Is what follows this paragraph quoted from the book? If so, may I have a citation, please?

[John-in-KC]

On 5/29/2021 at 8:19 AM, CynicalScouter said:

Scout Executives are selected by the local volunteer executive board from a list of qualified and approved candidates. Only Scout Executives, who are the local council’s CEO, must come from outside the council.

The SE of Heart of America Council, having spent a few years outside traveling, was invited back by the board. He’s doing well.

[DavidLeeLambert]

On 5/28/2021 at 9:42 AM, ThenNow said:

On 5/28/2021 at 2:16 AM, RobertCalifornia said:

Maybe it takes letters like it to move the case forward.

Yeah. Maybe. I tend to think it's so long it was only read to check for things to redact. To me, in this context, the length negates the impact and the content negates the intent. [...]

 

On 5/28/2021 at 9:47 AM, CynicalScouter said:

Regarding letters to the judge: please be aware that at this point she has been very clear: she's not reading them.

Quote

I haven't read all of the letters coming in recently, that's simply not possible, they're overwhelming our clerk's office and we're getting them on the docket as soon as we can. [...]

Speaking of letters, I'll admit that I still haven't read all of them either.

But even the ones I've read are a mixed bag.

One that appeared on the docket shortly before the last hearing is D.I.5047, which begins,

Quote

I was an 11 year old boy in the Boy Scouts. It was my first year of Scout Camp when I was dragged off to a big camp fire with the other scouts. We were standing around when I saw an older scout talking with the Scout
[block redacted]
Arrow boys and the Scout Master started to laugh at me. I was looking for my Scout Master I could hear him but could not see him. The Scout Master
[block redacted]

The next day I was taking a shower at camp slipped and fell hitting my head. [...] I remember that my Scout Master came to our home and my mother confronted him. Nothing was done to the older scouts or Scout Master that I recall.

He goes on to discuss a conversation he had with his wife about what she would have done, then says

Quote

I myself was a Cub Master for 12 years and I kept my scouts safe from this type of harassment. My youngest son reached his Eagle Rank at 15 years of age and our Grandson (his son) age 16 is about to be presented with his Eagle rank in just a few months. We are very proud of them and glad they did not have to endure this type of harassment.

So this particular claimant (victim) letter actually is consistent with the BSA's narrative: there were some bad apples 50 years ago (give or take a bit), but a little bit of vigilance on the part of a parent, grandparent, or Cubmaster can reduce abuse and has reduced abuse. He probably would be in favor of a plan that keeps BSA and his grandson's Local Council out of liquidation, at least for the "few months" his grandson still needs for Eagle.

Another one, D.I. 5032, recounts two instances of abuse. In the first, the abuser may have been an older boy; the letter says that the first abuser "left Scouts" a few months afterward. In the second, the abuser was the claimant's older brother, and the act occurred in the back of the family vehicle while their parents were operating it.

Going back a bit, in D.I. 4631 the claimant says on one page that "I was sexually abused at [redacted] the year 1991 1992 1993 [...]" but on another page "I'm still been sexually [unclear] by the B.S.A. today". I find it hard to take that statement literally.

[ThenNow]

16 minutes ago, DavidLeeLambert said:

on another page "I'm still been sexually [unclear] by the B.S.A. today". I find it hard to take that statement literally.

I can't say for sure, but I have seen other statements like that. Personally and from experience, I take that to mean what you have heard me and a few other men say in this thread and others (YPT, "psycho-babble, etc.) The claim process and waiting game that started February 18, 2020 has been incredible difficult for many if not most of us. It has rekindled dark memories and has dragged many of us down. If I didn't mention it, I ended up in the ER with chest pains at one point. Thankfully, not another heart attack. For many of us, it has been absolutely brutal, reminiscent of the abuse. I am betting that's what he meant. 

[ThenNow]

49 minutes ago, DavidLeeLambert said:

But even the ones I've read are a mixed bag.

What do you mean by this? Some are sexual abuse and others not and/or some more severe than others. I'm just asking not poking.

[ThenNow]

On 5/29/2021 at 2:00 PM, CynicalScouter said:

MOST Chartered Organizations couldn't give a rip about what was going on in these units. They signed the papers once a year and went on about their business.

How remote is the chance of getting the Annual Charter Agreement for the 1970's?

[elitts]

On 5/28/2021 at 5:49 PM, 100thEagleScout said:

Really?  Mind telling me how that works out when an openly gay counselor preys on scout camp staff members, doesn’t get an immediate suspension, instead multiple “warnings,” then comes back as a CAMPER and sits in the merit badge classes of those whom he abused for an hour each day?  Then the BSA phone line goes silent and an outside party needs to tell BSA to kick someone?  

A adult staff member was raping 15+ year old staff members and only got warnings?  Wow, I would have thought that unlikely for a number of reasons; particularly since you must be talking about recent years since being openly gay wouldn't have been allowed for a staff member before 2015(I think?)

On 5/29/2021 at 6:58 PM, CynicalScouter said:

Is it reasonable to believe 2/3rds of abuse victims will approve a plan where a big piece (insurance assignments) remain a big, giant question mark?

 

I don't understand how they could have any other choice?  (and this isn't me arguing, it's me legitimately not understanding)  Are you talking about while the contract details are still clouded or without knowing the total amount they will be held responsible for?  I'd think getting a hard total on how much will be coming from insurance companies would be great for everyone (except maybe the insurance companies) but I don't see how that number could be developed without actually processing each submitted claim.

[100thEagleScout]

2 minutes ago, elitts said:

A adult staff member was raping 15+ year old staff members and only got warnings?  Wow, I would have thought that unlikely for a number of reasons; particularly since you must be talking about recent years since being openly gay wouldn't have been allowed for a staff member before 2015(I think?)

He was actually 16.  He was being sexually inappropriate to his peers.  Wasn’t an adult.

 

I have reason to believe he was heavily medicated because he was weird.

[johnsch322]

7 hours ago, DavidLeeLambert said:

So this particular claimant (victim) letter actually is consistent with the BSA's narrative: there were some bad apples 50 years ago (give or take a bit),

I would hope that we all have done some research, know that there were 7,800 (at least) individuals named in the perversion files and get beyond a narrative of "some bad apples".  I am sure that out of 85K claims there are some false or some outright lies being told but that does not support a "some bad apples" narrative.

[1980Scouter]

So I am thinking there has to be some movement at the hearing this week. Either to let TCC file a plan or end LC protections. They would have to be very close to an agreement to continue negotiating, which I do not see. 

Hopefully the judge will decide some things so this can move forward. 

[CynicalScouter]

2 hours ago, 1980Scouter said:

So I am thinking there has to be some movement at the hearing this week.

Here's the thing: mediation is a big, giant, black box inside a black hole.

The phrase "meditation breakthrough" is not unheard of. Sometimes, the dam just breaks "suddenly and all at once".

Now, that does that mean I expect some big announcement today at June 4? No. But it isn't impossible, either.

Looking at things in their most charitable light, the TCC did not want to delay until June 4 but it happened The court ordered the delay on the request of the mediators.  We don't know what wheels are turning in the background.

• Maybe that last hearing and the TCC's list to the LCs of what they expected/were demanding put things into sharp relief and woke some people up.
• Maybe the National meeting spurred some conversations for BSA National at least to just get this over and done with.
• Maybe that impending August deadline for cash flow troubles is real and therefore BSA is getting pressured/inspired to play lets-make-a-deal.
• Maybe seeing what I assume at this point to be hundreds of suits against BSA in NY and other lookback window states has inspired BSA and the LCs to get a move on or else watch as this whole thing blows up in their face.

And so on.

That said, if past is prologue, nothing much has changed, the judge will kick the can further down the road in some misguided effort at mediation, and we'll all watch as BSA circles the drain.

 

[CynicalScouter]

10 hours ago, johnsch322 said:

7,800 (at least) individuals named in the perversion files and get beyond a narrative of "some bad apples". 

That's why makes me so appreciative of what TCC is trying to do here. In addition to working on behalf of all abuse victims for maximum financial benefit (as they are by law supposed to do) they have also said they'll be asking for the FULL (redacted) release of ALL these files. BSA needs to finally come clean here.

[100thEagleScout]

10 minutes ago, CynicalScouter said:

That's why makes me so appreciative of what TCC is trying to do here. In addition to working on behalf of all abuse victims for maximum financial benefit (as they are by law supposed to do) they have also said they'll be asking for the FULL (redacted) release of ALL these files. BSA needs to finally come clean here.

And two years of operation costs for councils.  I think that’s a very generous proposal.

[Muttsy]

23 hours ago, ThenNow said:

Is what follows this paragraph quoted from the book? If so, may I have a citation, please?

A scout survivor who settled his lawsuit with the BSA about fifteen years ago paid Boyle for the rights to his book and put in up on the internet. It is attached. The reference is at page 272.

20420157_ScoutsHonorBookbyPatrickBoyle.pdf

 

You can also download it free at https://youthtoday.org/2008/09/scouts-honor/

Edited June 1, 2021 by elitts
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