Claimant Discussion and Impacts on individuals/BSA

[jr56]

Is there anybody out there checking on the truth of these 84000 cases?   I would think that some of the cases that supposedly happened 30-50 years ago would not be provable?   I would have no way of knowing but I would guess some of those 84000 cases are somebody saying yes, I was abused, give me the cash.

[jr56]

Thanks for the info

[CynicalScouter]

52 minutes ago, jr56 said:

Is there anybody out there checking on the truth of these 84000 cases?   I would think that some of the cases that supposedly happened 30-50 years ago would not be provable?   I would have no way of knowing but I would guess some of those 84000 cases are somebody saying yes, I was abused, give me the cash.

Ok, there are three levels of review, two are going to happen. The third...might?

NOW: The BSA and insurance companies vetted. This was originally 95,000. Now down to 84,000. Likely to go lower. Some of this is duplicate claims (accidental, on purpose, whatever). Some are for claims that were already paid out (where someone already sued the BSA and won) etc.

SOON (maybe): The insurance companies want to get supporting documents from 1000 claims and verbal depositions from 100. This "sampling" would give insurers more info. They filed a motion of this, it is still pending.

LATER: The BSA plan calls for ALL BSA Settlement Funds and assets (buildings, cash, paintings, oil/gas rights, etc.) to go into a Settlement Trust. The Trust would be overseen by a Trustee who would be appointed by the bankruptcy judge with the debtors OK. ALL 84,000 claims would go to the Trustee who would go line by line, case by case and determine a) how valid the claims are and b) how egregious the claims. The claimants are going to have to come up with something more than "just give me money," WITHOUT GETTING INTO DETAILS there will be an "abuse score" for each claimant.

That abuse score will be put up against a chart. So, if your "abuse score" is 100, and every "point" is valued at $1, then the Settlement Trust will pay you $100.

Again, WITHOUT GETTING INTO DETAILS some people may have suffer 1000 "points" of abuse. Their abuse was worse than 100 points, or happened 10 times (100*10 = 1000). etc. They would get $1,000.

The fact that it is 40-50 years old cuts both ways: yes, it is harder to defend against, but it is ALSO harder to prove it actually happened.

So no, it is not just going to be a case of "I was abused, give me the cash."

Edited April 21, 2021 by CynicalScouter

[jr56]

Thanks much.  That clarifies things.

Are there any legal proceedings against other youth groups out there,  Boys & Girls clubs, GSA,  youth sports organizations?   Or is the BSA being singled out?

[Eagle1993]

1 minute ago, jr56 said:

Thanks much.  That clarifies things.

Are there any legal proceedings against other youth groups out there,  Boys & Girls clubs, GSA,  youth sports organizations?   Or is the BSA being singled out?

Boys & Girls Club is definitely a big target.

https://topclassactions.com/lawsuit-settlements/sexual-assault-abuse/boys-girls-clubs-of-america-sexual-assault-class-action-lawsuit

USA gymnastics already field bankruptcy a year before BSA and is struggling to emerge.

GSUSA is also being targeted .. "The Boy Scouts are a magnet for men who are looking for sexual relationships with young boys, and the Girl Scouts are just as dangerous for young girls"

https://www.stopsexualabusenow.com/services/sexual-abuse/community-leader-sexual-abuse/girl-scout-sexual-abuse

Pick a youth organization and I expect there are lawyers out there looking to sue.

[David CO]

5 hours ago, yknot said:

Thanks. I think if there is any idea here that abused kids were somehow to blame for their abuse and the adults and responsible organization weren't, there's not much that can be rationally discussed. 

I totally agree.  But we should point out that this immunity from blame only applies to child sexual abuse.  It doesn't apply to anything else.

If an adult purchased a case of beer for a patrol of scouts, and the scouts had a drinking party, and they were caught, the scouts could be blamed.  They could be charged with underage drinking.  They could be kicked out of scouting.

If an adult drug dealer sold a patrol of scouts some illegal drugs, and the scouts were caught with them, the scouts could be blamed.  They could be charged with possession. They could be kicked out of scouting.

If a modern day Fagin teaches a patrol of scouts to steal, and they get caught shoplifting, the scouts could be blamed.  They could be charged with theft.  They could be kicked out of scouting.

I wouldn't want any kids to get the misimpression that there is some sort of blanket immunity that applies to them if they get caught doing something, just because an adult was involved.  This immunity from blame only applies to child sexual abuse.

 

[yknot]

41 minutes ago, David CO said:

I totally agree.  But we should point out that this immunity from blame only applies to child sexual abuse.  It doesn't apply to anything else.

If an adult purchased a case of beer for a patrol of scouts, and the scouts had a drinking party, and they were caught, the scouts could be blamed.  They could be charged with underage drinking.  They could be kicked out of scouting.

If an adult drug dealer sold a patrol of scouts some illegal drugs, and the scouts were caught with them, the scouts could be blamed.  They could be charged with possession. They could be kicked out of scouting.

If a modern day Fagin teaches a patrol of scouts to steal, and they get caught shoplifting, the scouts could be blamed.  They could be charged with theft.  They could be kicked out of scouting.

I wouldn't want any kids to get the misimpression that there is some sort of blanket immunity that applies to them if they get caught doing something, just because an adult was involved.  This immunity from blame only applies to child sexual abuse.

 

Those situations aren't analogous with what we're talking about.  Immunity from blame implies that some kind of fault has occurred. We're talking about child abuse. Immunity is irrelevant when it comes to its victims. 

 

[ThenNow]

On 4/21/2021 at 6:27 PM, CynicalScouter said:

LATER: The BSA plan calls for ALL BSA Settlement Funds and assets (buildings, cash, paintings, oil/gas rights, etc.) to go into a Settlement Trust. The Trust would be overseen by a Trustee who would be appointed by the bankruptcy judge with the debtors OK. ALL 84,000 claims would go to the Trustee who would go line by line, case by case and determine a) how valid the claims are and b) how egregious the claims. The claimants are going to have to come up with something more than "just give me money," WITHOUT GETTING INTO DETAILS there will be an "abuse score" for each claimant.

That abuse score will be put up against a chart. So, if your "abuse score" is 100, and every "point" is valued at $1, then the Settlement Trust will pay you $100.

Again, WITHOUT GETTING INTO DETAILS some people may have suffer 1000 "points" of abuse. Their abuse was worse than 100 points, or happened 10 times (100*10 = 1000). etc. They would get $1,000.

The fact that it is 40-50 years old cuts both ways: yes, it is harder to defend against, but it is ALSO harder to prove it actually happened.

Does anyone have any historic or contextual experience with how something like this actually works, in practical terms? I recognize it would be cross-referencing with a different type of mass tort claim, so not a direct comparison. CSA cases like this one have different variables, indicia of veracity and quantifiers, of course, but I'm trying to wrap my head around how a Trustee is going to cull, review, assess and grade/rank this many claims with so many of the aged variety. I know the BSA CSA Proofs of Claim range from those with nothing but the form completed (basic data entered or not, and boxes checked) to a select few that are voluminous with exhibits, photos and other elements of proof.   

[CynicalScouter]

2 minutes ago, ThenNow said:

but I'm trying to wrap my head around how a Trustee is going to cull, review, assess and grade/rank this many claims with so many of the aged variety.

The only thing I can think of, and it isn't exact but it is all I've got, is asbestos combined with 9/11.

Asbestos: where exposure may have been decades ago, illness occurs now, and the (in those cases courts) had to/have to figure out how much asbestos was inhaled THEN to determine damages NOW. And yes, it included lookback windows and statute of limitations fights.

In that case/those cases there was a push for an omnibus global settlement through and MDL in Federal Court. It failed miserably. Sound familiar?

Rand Corp did several studies on the extent of ligation. https://www.rand.org/content/dam/rand/pubs/monographs/2005/RAND_MG162.pdf

See in particular the section on Search for Global Settlement.

Instead, what has happened has been tens of thousands of cases litigated one by one.

September 11th Victim Compensation Fund: Claims adjuster was appointed and heard the bulk of the cases "Feinberg personally presided over more than 900 of the 1,600 hearings. At the end of the process $7 billion was awarded to 97% of the families."

The one major advantage (if that's the right word) of this vs. asbestos is that there is a known, finite number of claims against BSA (~84,000) and that number may drop lower as duplicate claims and other admin things reduce the number. Asbestos there are still people testing positive for and suing now for inhaling it decades ago. 9/11 fund there was a finite number of claims (1600) as well.

So, unlike asbsetos where there will probably be cases into the next 2-3 decades, any BSA settlement (whether Global or at least as to BSA National/the toggle plan) the settlement adjuster/trustee will be working this for a few years, not indefinitely, making it more like the 9/11 VCF.