Ideas - What Can Prevent Abuse in BSA

[qwazse]

On 4/15/2021 at 2:51 PM, GrubKnot said:

...  I know Troops sometimes have leaders who stay on after their scout/s have aged out, and you occasionally here about a SM who has been around for decades. I can see the good & bad about that. ...

Being one such leader, and a scout who has benefited from such leaders, and a father of scouts who have benefited from such leaders, I see nothing but good. The method is adult association, not parent association.

Tenure has nothing to do with perilous leaders. Or, if it does, nobody is publishing stats on it.

[Eagle1993]

11 minutes ago, qwazse said:

Being one such leader, and a scout who has benefited from such leaders, and a father of scouts who have benefited from such leaders, I see nothing but good. The method is adult association, not parent association.

Tenure has nothing to do with perilous leaders. Or, if it does, nobody is publishing stats on it.

We have an ASM who has stayed on well past his kids aging out.  I can’t imagine the Troop without him.  He provides scouts (and adults) great guidance.  Any time I suggest a change he is supportive (even if it differs from how he ran the Troop).  I know he will leave at some point, and that will be a bittersweet day.  

[fred8033]

On 4/7/2021 at 8:33 AM, Eagle1993 said:

Do we need a IIHS for youth organizations?  Essentially, an independent body of experts that can review the training, procedures, etc. for all major youth organizations that buy insurance and rate their safety level and have that publicly available.  

It's a great idea.  Removes the this group vs that group challenge.  

[fred8033]

 

On 4/7/2021 at 8:33 AM, Eagle1993 said:

Do we need a IIHS for youth organizations? 

 

On 4/7/2021 at 2:42 PM, David CO said:

No.  I don't believe in letting corporate America run our lives.  

I actually think it's a very good idea.  We have IIHS for automobiles.  We have NTSB for air travel.  

It's not about corporations running our lives.  It's about outside, independent analysis of failures that then produce recommendations.  Call it the NYSB, national youth safety board.  As people want to fly, people also want their kids to be active, experiencing life.  As people can't monitor airlines for safety, people can't monitor all the organizations their kids help their kids.  

An independent feedback loop of how soceity protects kids is a very important idea.

[qwazse]

12 hours ago, fred8033 said:

... It's not about corporations running our lives.  It's about outside, independent analysis of failures that then produce recommendations.  Call it the NYSB, national youth safety board.  As people want to fly, people also want their kids to be active, experiencing life.  As people can't monitor airlines for safety, people can't monitor all the organizations their kids help their kids.  ....

Kool. It could monitor how systems are abusing our kids, and hold them accountable. Heck, it could go straight to the source ... families. It could provide re-education camps for wayward parents. It’s a recipe for success. I’m sure predators would never corrupt such an oversight entity.

[David CO]

1 hour ago, qwazse said:

It could provide re-education camps for wayward parents. It’s a recipe for success. 

Absolutely.  The Philmont Family Re-Education Camp.  A great repurposing of a BSA camp.  

[David CO]

14 hours ago, fred8033 said:

 

 

I actually think it's a very good idea.  We have IIHS for automobiles.  We have NTSB for air travel.  

It's not about corporations running our lives.  It's about outside, independent analysis of failures that then produce recommendations.  Call it the NYSB, national youth safety board.  As people want to fly, people also want their kids to be active, experiencing life. 

The very first thing the National Youth Safety Board would outlaw is scouting.  

 

[David CO]

14 hours ago, fred8033 said:

It's about outside, independent analysis

Independent.  Nameless.  Faceless.  Self-appointed.  Unaccountable.  Wait a minute.  Isn't this the BSA National Council?

[fred8033]

1 hour ago, David CO said:

Absolutely.  The Philmont Family Re-Education Camp.  A great repurposing of a BSA camp.  

Mock the idea if you want. 

IIHS and NTSM focus on failure analysis and recommend improvements.  In engineering, we often model problem patterns with FMEAs.  The key point is too often failures are repeated over and over again across time and across organizations.  We should be step wise learning from such failures to improve youth protection.  Over time, this could only help protect children. 

BSA has what I'd often call an extremely good starting basis for youth protection in the G2SS.  Specific points could be added, removed and modified, but it's a good starting point.  Yes there are other failure modes such as oversight, enforement, etc.   That's where the analysis could really be beneficial.

The key is I don't see such standards and planned protection in other organizations.  Establishing such analysis and recommendations for youth servicing organizations seems like a very basic idea.  

[David CO]

28 minutes ago, fred8033 said:

Yes there are other failure modes such as oversight, enforement, etc.   That's where the analysis could really be beneficial.

I get it.  The elites rule and we obey.  It's an old story.

 

[TAHAWK]

Outside former sperts brought us "The Improved Scouting Program," BSA's last near-death experience.  Happily, Bill was rehired, brought back the outdoor program , and BSA survived.   

[Eagle94-A1]

7 hours ago, TAHAWK said:

Outside former sperts brought us "The Improved Scouting Program," BSA's last near-death experience.  Happily, Bill was rehired, brought back the outdoor program , and BSA survived.   

 

Outside, child education experts with no experience with the BSA's programs were also hired to develop the various training courses we have today. With the exception of Youth Protection,  look where current training is at compared to 15+ years ago.

 

 

[MattR]

8 hours ago, David CO said:

I get it.  The elites rule and we obey.  It's an old story.

 

And a mighty fine story when it comes to improved airline and auto safety. 

[Owls_are_cool]

I have been a den leader, scoutmaster, baseball coach, and basketball coach. The local scouting organizations I have been a part of have done an excellent job keeping youth safe. Little League baseball has background checks for coaches, do not have the two deep leadership/no one-on-one rules that the BSA has. I coached for a Christian school and they too only have the background check and cases where I was the only adult at practice. 

I have to give kudos to my district day camp leadership, because they take youth protection seriously and model the desired behaviors to scouts and adult volunteers. I learned a lot from this and practice those behaviors with my own troop to the best of my ability. Sadly my troop had an instance of a scoutmaster punching a scout a year before my son joined. A group of adults associated with the troop did the right thing and got him to resign. As a result, youth protection has become part of the DNA of my troop. Though the troop had to remove several of the adults from the group, because they wanted to remove a scout, because they did not like what he posted on social media (adult bullying). 

I think the online YPT training should be streamlined to the important points. Then the unit should demonstrate in some way that they are following YPT (Unit Commissioner? JTE?). I would find a way to positively reward units for proactively putting Youth Protection first, instead of coming out with another series of requirements/paperwork/etc troops have to submit to. I also agree that scouts should learn what behaviors are not acceptable from their adult leaders and have a way to report this to the BSA. Keep this simple also.

 

[David CO]

9 hours ago, Owls_are_cool said:

The local scouting organizations I have been a part of have done an excellent job keeping youth safe. Little League baseball has background checks for coaches, do not have the two deep leadership/no one-on-one rules that the BSA has. 

It's true that BSA has more rules than other organizations, but I don't think those extra rules have made kids more safe.