Eagle brand value

[fred8033]

18 hours ago, Eagle1993 said:

When did you quit?  I'm talking now, not 2014 and prior.  I would agree that during Dale it probably got rough.

My ASM was clear when we discussed this recently .. it helps.  He has talked with Harvard, Yale interviewers ... it helps.  Notre Dame ... helps.  We have had Eagle Scouts do well at Ivy through mid tier colleges.  We have examples.  That said, it won't help if you can't answer questions.  He has said it show perseverance and achievement of a goal. 

I think parents make the mistake thinking their son/daughter just needs to get Eagle Scout on the resume and they're golden.  If they go to an Eagle mill, I don't see the benefit.  (Yeah, its on the resume, but did they really learn anything?) Now, if while earning Eagle, your son/daughter got over a fear, learned new skills, took on a role they wouldn't have been comfortable with, lead a team, failed, succeeded, etc. ... that is the real value.  Then they  take that value and explain it during an interview and its a winner.  The rank on the app is really just a minor part of the story .. the value is what they did to earn that rank.

I hugely agree on this.   Several of my sons have incredible stories of fellowship, problem solving, huge work ethics, adventures that are truly meaningful.

I'm significantly involved in the local Eagle processes, but at the same time I see little value in Eagle if the scout does not have a strong network of scouts ... if the scout has not had adventures ... if the scout has not pushed the boundaries of fear and being uncomfortable.  

[Eagledad]

4 minutes ago, SilverPalm said:

Speaking more generally (not specifically to you, Eagle94), this bizarre gatekeeping over "well, it was harder in my day, and that means my Eagle is better than yours!" needs to stop.  An Eagle Scout is an Eagle Scout, period.

Oh, I guess. But it isn't the same. One has to be careful of defending passion in spite of reality. 

When I was a Scout in the 70's, OA Arrowmen held more respect by scouts than the Eagles because they were selected by their everyday scouting actions within the troop. The respect of the Eagle came from scouts who independently put in the extra effort to earn the Eagle. And, that is a well earned respect of itself. 

But, when I became a Scout Leader in 1992, I found my Cubs getting continued lectures by adults to stay in scouting for the Eagle. The All Mighty Eagle. I'm not sure how many of the Cubs listened to those lectures, but their parents sure did. As Scoutmaster talking to visiting Webelos families looking for a home troop, the number one question by the parents was how quickly can their son get an Eagle in our Troop. No doubt in my mind that 90% of Eagles today wouldn't have made it without a lot of push from adults. 

Call it cultural, I guess, but the Eagle is different today. It is still a stature of respect, but not the same.

That being said, there are still those 2 percent of scouts who are self-motivated and driven to aspire to Eagle nobility. In that since, .nothing has changed.

Barry

[fred8033]

Reading this thread.   Scouting has followed society. 

• Grate inflation distorting GPAs
• ACTs/SATs now being de-valued because of families gaming the system with practice tests and test tutors.
• Far easier now to write a paper than back in the 1970s with a type-writer or pen and paper.  
  • No trips to the library
  • No white out
  • No re-write the page because of writing mistakes.

Grade inflation for me when I was a kid was with lettering.  I lettered 7 or 8 times because each extra-curricular program I was in established it's own "lettering" standards.  

Gaming the system has been around for decades.  

Race To Nowhere documentation is an interesting.  I need to watch.

[Jeff1974]

Scoutmaster here with a 14 year old Life Scout/SPL who is just starting to work on identifying a project. 

I am seeing motivated Scouts push towards completing their Eagle requirements prior to starting high school or in their freshman/sophomore year, largely due to the academic pressure of the school, and their desire to take on additional extra curricular activities.  I have been pleased to see many of those scouts continue to be active after completing Eagle.  The meeting attendance is down for this group, but they are attending campouts or weekend activities.  

Our Troop does not run merit badge classes.  In the past year, I have seen many scouts take advantage of online MB programs offered by councils around the country.  Given the Covid limitations we are dealing with, we have encouraged online MBs as a means on continuing to make progress and to stay involved, as a supplement to our online meetings.    

In the past Covid year, we had 5 scouts successfully pass their EBORs: 2 who were approaching their 18th birthday, 2 16 years olds and 15 year old.  This was the largest number of Eagles our Troop had seen within a 12 month period in recent memory. 

 

[fred8033]

3 minutes ago, Eagledad said:

But, when I became a Scout Leader in 1992, I found my Cubs getting continued lectures by adults to stay in scouting for the Eagle. The All Mighty Eagle. I'm not sure how many of the Cubs listened to those lectures, but their parents sure did.

I do agree.  An adult saying to a youth to stay in for Eagle ... it's just hot air and too far away to have context.  

Our troop succeeded when the SM/SPL would talk about the troops activities and opportunities.  Unspoken was the SPL and another senior scout who were wearing their full uniform, sharp and crisp.  I'm absolutely sure those young kids looked up to those scouts and wanted to be like them.  

BSA really needs to get back to roots.  Kids want to have adventures with their friends.  Deliver on that promise.

[Eagledad]

11 minutes ago, fred8033 said:

I do agree.  An adult saying to a youth to stay in for Eagle ... it's just hot air and too far away to have context.  

Our troop succeeded when the SM/SPL would talk about the troops activities and opportunities.  Unspoken was the SPL and another senior scout who were wearing their full uniform, sharp and crisp.  I'm absolutely sure those young kids looked up to those scouts and wanted to be like them.  

BSA really needs to get back to roots.  Kids want to have adventures with their friends.  Deliver on that promise.

I don't know that the culture will allow Scouting to get to it's roots. I had almost as many parents pushing their son to get elected into OA during their first year of Scouting. Many parents were irate when their son wasn't elected and demanded that the SM intercede. 

We live in a culture where each player of the youth soccer team is handed a trophy for just being on the team. That wasn't driven by the players. Adults encourage mediocrity so they don't have to deal with the emotions of disappointment they feel when their children don't accel. 

Barry 

[MattR]

It would be a whole lot easier to solve this problem if those deciding the value of eagle understood that eagle is nothing but a tool to achieve a higher goal. "So, your resume says you're an eagle scout. Tell me some stories of how that has taught you something useful." A nice, open question. If they talk about specific skills they've been tested on that tells the value of eagle to that applicant. If they talk about taking younger scouts under their wing and helping them out, it tells a very different value. As my son told me, eagle will get you another look, but it's not worth anything if you can't talk about the experience.

[ThenNow]

7 minutes ago, MattR said:

"So, your resume says you're an eagle scout. Tell me some stories of how that has taught you something useful." A nice, open question. If they talk about specific skills they've been tested on that tells the value of eagle to that applicant. If they talk about taking younger scouts under their wing and helping them out, it tells a very different value.

My wife, sons and siblings are probably tired of hearing, "I learned that in Scouts...these are things I built, crafted, taught to Cubs and younger Scouts while on staff...this is how I got injured doing something incorrectly or unwisely." I'm no great shakes, but those things come out of my mouth at least several times a year.

[qwazse]

The "in it just for fun" ethic is betrayed by the smaller membership, yet increasing number of Eagles awarded each year.

That doesn't diminish the value in terms of tasks accomplished. But it does call to question who an Eagle scout actually led during his/her tenure. Let's put the tiger-parenting and high-speed low-drag types of leaders aside. Even in troops without that, one can have a steady stream of Eagles, but when that happens, one does not have clusters of youth uninterested in rank. Son #1's experience was when the troop had an "Eagle flurry", while Son #2's experience was during an "Eagle dearth" (he was the only one from his class who made rank). Son #1 could get by choosing a highly motivated crowd of boys to lead. Son #2 had to work with a tougher crowd.

That's not to say Son #1 wasn't stellar going into adulthood, but he was a little blind-sided by a workforce of unmotivated people, whereas Son #2 had already dealt with them in his youth, and was able to connect with boots-on-the-ground more readily.

So, if your scout is coming up in a troop that welcomes youth who aren't all that worried about rank, I think he/she's gonna have an edge in life by earning Eagle in that environment.

Edited April 6, 2021 by qwazse

[WisconsinMomma]

On 4/6/2021 at 10:04 AM, Jeff1974 said:

 

In the past Covid year, we had 5 scouts successfully pass their EBORs: 2 who were approaching their 18th birthday, 2 16 years olds and 15 year old.  This was the largest number of Eagles our Troop had seen within a 12 month period in recent memory. 

 

Covid has given kids more time to work on stuff.  They need things to avoid the boredom!  I know a kid who took his Covid downtime and applied it to working on Eagle.