Eagle brand value

[yknot]

1 hour ago, Eagle1993 said:

I think parents make the mistake thinking their son/daughter just needs to get Eagle Scout on the resume and they're golden. 

I don't think most parents view it that way. For most who are pointing towards a better college, it's an "And?" credential. Meaning, "So, you're 4.0 and you're a National Merit Scholar and you're an elite athlete and you're president of XYZ and you've gotten 5s on al your AP exams and you volunteer for Unified and you're an Eagle Scout...  and?"  

 

[ThenNow]

2 minutes ago, yknot said:

For most who are pointing towards a better college, it's an "And?" credential. Meaning, "So, you're 4.0 and you're a National Merit Scholar and you're an elite athlete and you're president of XYZ and you've gotten 5s on al your AP exams and you volunteer for Unified and you're an Eagle Scout...  and?"  

...and you might need a lifetime of therapy after all that high achievement and pressure. 

[yknot]

4 minutes ago, ThenNow said:

...and you might need a lifetime of therapy after all that high achievement and pressure. 

Many kids do. Have you ever seen the Race to Nowhere documentary? Pretty tragic but it is the reality and is part of what is driving the push to Eagle at all costs in some regions. 

[David CO]

23 minutes ago, yknot said:

Many kids do. Have you ever seen the Race to Nowhere documentary? Pretty tragic but it is the reality and is part of what is driving the push to Eagle at all costs in some regions. 

Sounds like another lawsuit.  

[Eagle94-A1]

2 hours ago, SilverPalm said:

I earned my Eagle Scout in 2008, and I do get the impression now that the trail has been broadened somewhat from what it once was.  That's not to say it's easier, per se - it's more that I think there were more resources in place when I went through the program than there probably were in the 1970s. 

If you call summer camps turning into merit badge factories and weekend merit badge colleges where the expectation is you show up you get the MB more resources, then yes. But the quality of instruction has gone down. Ever worked a summer camp, and have 30 people in you Lifesaving MB class? Ever been told you cannot kick out Scouts when they misbehave, cut up, and cause issues where you cannot go over the skills with those who are behaving?

2 hours ago, SilverPalm said:

It's not as though the requirements are all that different today then they were then. 

No, but the standard has. Reading my 1979 edition of the BSHB, the standard was "Master the Skills." By the time you earned eagle, the standard  was "The Badge represents what the Scout CAN DO, not what he has done (sic)." Today, "... badges recognize that Scouts have gone through experiences of learning things they did not previously know." 

That has created a "one and done" mentality in advancement.  I have seen Life Scouts who could not do basic Tenderfoot through First Class first aid because "I don't remember that, I took it my first year at summer camp." 

 

2 hours ago, SilverPalm said:

But it was possible to go up to summer camp and earn 4 merit badges in a week if you went to camp prepared, and I'm not sure that would have been the case for Scouts in previous generations.   

Some Scouters today would say you wasted your time only earning 4 MBs that week. I am old school, I say have fun and take advantage of opportunities. One of my Scouts is taking 2 classes at camp; a 3 hour climbing class, and a 3 hour cycling class ( mountain biking option). I have no problem with that.

2 hours ago, SilverPalm said:

I do think that a lot of one's Scouting career is dictated by the quality of one's leadership. 

Most definitely. I have ran into SMs who do not understand why camping is so important. As a result, that troop never went camping unless it was a MB weekend or camporee.

[TAHAWK]

When Scouts are Eaglling at 5-7 times the rate in the Golden Age, there are questions that need asking.  Really that much smarter and dedicated and/or that much more time to devote to Scouting, or ........?

[ThenNow]

7 hours ago, TAHAWK said:

When Scouts are Eaglling at 5-7 times the rate in the Golden Age, there are questions that need asking.  Really that much smarter and dedicated and/or that much more time to devote to Scouting, or ........?

Thanks for all the answers on this. I don't want to further deviate from the topic, so will leave it with this gem from another of the Forum's threads. 

(With apologies to Jeff Foxworthy)

You might be an Eagle factory if...

If your troop meeting plan is based on merit badge classes then you might be an Eagle factory.

If the majority of merit badge sashes in the troop look the same you might be an Eagle factory.

If scouts are told which merit badge they are learning next you might be an Eagle factory.

If everyone moves to the next rank at the same time you might be an Eagle factory.

If you define the success of your program by the number of Eagle Scouts you might be an Eagle factory.

If you think the advancement method is the most important scout method you might be an Eagle factory.

If you give blue cards to scouts before they ask for one you might be an Eagle factory.

If you tell scouts how many, or which, merit badges they must earn at summercamp you might be an Eagle factory.

So don't worry about what others say, worry about what you are doing. If the actions above seem familiar to you in the unit you serve, then you are not following the the scouting program or giving the youth the best possible scouting experience even if they receive Eagle, and that is what is important.

Bob White

 

 

[scoutldr]

7 hours ago, TAHAWK said:

When Scouts are Eaglling at 5-7 times the rate in the Golden Age, there are questions that need asking.  Really that much smarter and dedicated and/or that much more time to devote to Scouting, or ........?

I have my theories...and they are not what you postulate.

[RememberSchiff]

I split the Eagle brand discussion to here from the old, now locked, Chapter 11 - announced topic.

RS

@MattR @John-in-KC

[gpurlee]

Some observations from our troop and council regarding the achievement of Eagle rank from five decades as a Scout leader.

(1) Clearly statistics show an achievement rate today of two to three times the rate in the 1970's.

(2) The explosion of district and council merit badge weekends has made it easier (too easy?) to achieve many requirements. This has accelerated with virtual classes now being available. It used to be rare to see a Scout with 25 merit badges on their sash. Today, frequently sashes almost collapse under the weight of 50 or more badges.

(3) Many troops now provide separate merit badge groups outside of the regular merit badge classes. 

(4) We have given tacit consent to quantity over quality in merit badge instruction in many instances. Much of the intended richness of the merit badge counseling process has been lost. 

(5) We are providing better guidance in the Life to Eagle transition. Many of the Scouts who in the past were "Almost An Eagle" are now achieving the rank of Eagle Scout.  As more Scouts achieve the rank of Eagle, it raises the expectation for everyone else.

(6) There has been a marked shift from 16 to 17 year old Eagles to 13 to 15 year old Eagle Scouts.  Eagle rank is seen more as a destination rather than a part of a longer journey in Scouting. Young people are encouraged to move onto the next achievement. At the same time, by achieving the rank of Eagle Scout at an earlier age, fewer Scouts are being thrown off course by jobs, cars, dating, etc.

(7) As a side note, many Eagle Scout ceremonies have become much more elaborate  in terms of features such as video presentations, ice sculptures and full meals. 

 

 

 

[ThenNow]

2 minutes ago, gpurlee said:

As a side note, many Eagle Scout ceremonies have become much more elaborate  in terms of features such as video presentations, ice sculptures and full meals. 

It's settled. I was born at the wrong time. I coulda had an ice sculpture of me nearly drowning on the mile swim (or in full flower of PI), plus a platter of tenderloin tips and asparagus. Dang it.

[Jameson76]

12 minutes ago, gpurlee said:

(6) There has been a marked shift from 16 to 17 year old Eagles to 13 to 15 year old Eagle Scouts.  Eagle rank is seen more as a destination rather than a part of a longer journey in Scouting. Young people are encouraged to move onto the next achievement. At the same time, by achieving the rank of Eagle Scout at an earlier age, fewer Scouts are being thrown off course by jobs, cars, dating, etc.

Average age for Eagle Scouts is (I think) 17.2 years of age, and that has been fairly consistent

[Eagle94-A1]

1 hour ago, gpurlee said:

(7) As a side note, many Eagle Scout ceremonies have become much more elaborate  in terms of features such as video presentations, ice sculptures and full meals. 

When oldest was planning his ECOH, the wife told him that he should plan his ECOH like he would his wedding, except for the wedding it will be the fiancee/ future MIL show as he will have no say.

[SilverPalm]

13 hours ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

If you call summer camps turning into merit badge factories and weekend merit badge colleges where the expectation is you show up you get the MB more resources, then yes. But the quality of instruction has gone down. Ever worked a summer camp, and have 30 people in you Lifesaving MB class? Ever been told you cannot kick out Scouts when they misbehave, cut up, and cause issues where you cannot go over the skills with those who are behaving?

No, but the standard has. Reading my 1979 edition of the BSHB, the standard was "Master the Skills." By the time you earned eagle, the standard  was "The Badge represents what the Scout CAN DO, not what he has done (sic)." Today, "... badges recognize that Scouts have gone through experiences of learning things they did not previously know." 

That has created a "one and done" mentality in advancement.  I have seen Life Scouts who could not do basic Tenderfoot through First Class first aid because "I don't remember that, I took it my first year at summer camp." 

This strikes me more as a systemic issue with the program than an issue with the Scouts who are currently earning Eagle Scout.  Is the argument here that my Eagle Scout somehow means less than one earned ten, thirty, or fifty years before? 

If that's the case - an argument I fervently disagree with, incidentally, just knowing what sorts of hurdles I had to jump over to achieve my rank - then where does the blame lie?  Is this National's fault for revising the standards?  Is it the parents of Scouts for pushing their boys too hard?  Is it helicopter Scout Leaders who promote Merit Badge factories? 

I think it's hard to argue that the Scouts themselves are to blame for greasing the skids, as it were.  And as such, I'm not sure it's fair to consider more recent Eagle ranks as somehow less prestigious or less impressive than those earned in prior decades.  I went through the program, the same as everyone else.  

And I earned my Eagle at 16, too.  I was the second youngest Eagle Scout I was even aware of at the time, though I did know a guy who earned his at 15. After I earned my Eagle Scout, I stayed active in the Troop for more than a year, served as an OA Vice Chapter Chief and Chapter Chief, and earned three Eagle Palms, and I was proud of that.  I was active right until my eighteenth birthday.

13 hours ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

Some Scouters today would say you wasted your time only earning 4 MBs that week. I am old school, I say have fun and take advantage of opportunities. One of my Scouts is taking 2 classes at camp; a 3 hour climbing class, and a 3 hour cycling class ( mountain biking option). I have no problem with that.

4 was the most that could possibly be earned during a week-long summer camp at the time; four badges required six hours a day for five days of camp, IIRC.  In later years, I ended up getting some of my Eagle Required badges done at camp, because one of the parents in my Troop was a counselor for two of the Citizenship badges, but all that meant was getting some documents signed off that I'd already prepared.  I still had to go to a City Council meeting and prepare a discussion on the most recent State of the Union.  Just because I actually proved I had completed the requirements at camp didn't mean the camp was a merit badge factory; it just meant that I had access to a Troop MBC.

Speaking more generally (not specifically to you, Eagle94), this bizarre gatekeeping over "well, it was harder in my day, and that means my Eagle is better than yours!" needs to stop.  An Eagle Scout is an Eagle Scout, period.

[fred8033]

19 hours ago, MisterH said:

.... a few professors who dismissed the Boy Scouts as "a right-wing, paramilitary hate group", particularly prior to 2014 when the BSA started lifting their official bans on homosexuality.

I can see that.  Professors promoting hate and bigotry by accusing other groups as hateful.