Chapter 11 announced - Part 2 (after the big slow)

[David CO]

28 minutes ago, yknot said:

The difference? Football data has been comparatively transparent, and used to foster ongoing conversations and program modifications.  We in BSA had no idea how many fatalities, let alone abuse cases, occurred in scouting each year, what the circumstances were, or what the recommended improvements were. 

True.  I had copies of the football injury data available to parents at football registration.  Both the national data and our team data.  Full disclosure.

I couldn't do that at scout registrations.  The data wasn't available.

 

[ThenNow]

6 minutes ago, David CO said:

Full disclosure.

And informed consent. 

[David CO]

23 minutes ago, ThenNow said:

And informed consent. 

I deliberately left that out.  I didn't want anyone to misread my comment and quote me as saying children can consent to sexual abuse.  

 

[ThenNow]

Just now, David CO said:

I deliberately left that out.  I didn't want anyone to misread my comment and quote me as saying children can consent to sexual abuse.  

Gah. Good point. I meant as to parents.

[Eagle1993]

3 hours ago, Eagledad said:

But, I don't know why you are even here.

I'll do my best to explain what I have seen in this thread, so hopefully I don't misconstrue the message.  The one thing I would say about @ThenNow is that it does seem that he cares about the BSA and sees the value of the program.  He has mentioned how impressed he is by what he sees from many of the comments .... volunteers who spend much if not most of their free time working to provide children an experience that is unique and provides life long value.  That said, he was sexually abused in the worst way by his Scoutmaster.  No one within the BSA prevented it or took action (as far as he can tell).  I think its good for us to hear from victims that don't simply say lets eliminate the BSA.  It doesn't mean you or anyone has to agree with everything or anything said, but it's not bad to hear the message.

Now there are victims out there that are simply saying end the BSA.  I would agree with you that there is no point for them to join our forums.  @ThenNow doesn't seem to be in that group.

[MYCVAStory]

Pardon the repetition but for anyone who needs a reminder and would like to discuss afterward issues that may be more connected to the "nuts and bolts" of this bankruptcy proceeding:

TCC Town Hall Meeting reminder:

Thursday 4/8 at 8PM EDT

https://pszjlaw.zoom.us/j/84324072960

Given the TCC's objection to the BSA's attempt at submitting a reorganization plan this meeting may be of great interest to victims and local councils alike.  

The TCC also posts the video and transcripts afterwards.

[acema606]

@MYCVAStory  How long do these Town Hall Meetings generally last?  I'm hoping to be able to listen in. 

[ThenNow]

22 minutes ago, acema606 said:

How long do these Town Hall Meetings generally last?

1 hour. 

[acema606]

Just now, ThenNow said:

1 hour. 

Thank you!

[DavidLeeLambert]

At least a couple of Chartered Organizations that had filed claims for indemnity have now withdrawn their claims. Today's example is St. Paul's Evangelical Lutheran Church of Albion, in Albion, Michigan.

https://casedocs.omniagentsolutions.com/cmsvol2/pub_47373/885510_2544.pdf

https://cases.omniagentsolutions.com/claimdocket?clientid=CsgAAncz%2b6Yclmvv9%2fq5CGybTGevZSjdVimQq9zQutqmTPHesk4PZDyfOOLxIiIwZjXomPlMZCo%3d

No idea whether the Board of Trustees just looked at the filings (or news about them) and decided that the likelihood of BSA actually covering them against any claim was so low that it didn't make sense to follow the case any more; or whether they did their own investigation and assured themselves that nothing in their past could give rise to a claim; or whether they inquired and got confirmation that, indeed, they were not a target of any of the filed abuse claims; or something else.

So that's $1,000,000 less in the bucket of the "Indirect Abuse Victims" class, and only 165 other "Evangelical Lutheran" churches among the claimants.

[David CO]

5 hours ago, ThenNow said:

Gah. Good point. I meant as to parents.

Yes.  Parental consent to participate in scouting.

[David CO]

2 hours ago, DavidLeeLambert said:

So that's $1,000,000 less in the bucket of the "Indirect Abuse Victims" class

Boy, that's a relief. 

[DavidLeeLambert]

On 4/7/2021 at 5:59 PM, yknot said:

I don't know if you noticed but one of those 4-H reports is from 2007 and the other is not about sexual abuse at all, it's about a bunch of teenage counselors running their own fight club. There are not a plethora of 4-H reports. 

Speaking of 4H, I was looking at the TCC summary of abuse claims again and I noticed that there are three claims that list the chartered organization as "4H Club". Page 16 of 328 (page 39 of the PDF), about halfway down.

Also 402 for "YMCA", 167 for "Boys and Girls Club" , 89 for "Boy Scouts of America", 9 for "Police Athletic League", 5 for "United Way", 5 for "Red Cross".

(I once invited a family to attend Cub Scout meetings, but the parent was reluctant because they had a standing commitment to attend Boys and Girls Club daily earlier in the day and transportation would have been difficult from one place to the other. They did attend exactly one pack activity, a fire-station visit. The parent passed away only a month or so later, from an accident while attempting repair of an automobile.)

And one at the West Texas Boys Ranch (Guardian exposé)...

Edited April 9, 2021 by DavidLeeLambert

[David CO]

On 4/8/2021 at 12:17 PM, RememberSchiff said:

Please reread what @David CO posted below. My take is he wants to screen kids to better protect them from predators, not exclude them.

 

23 hours ago, KublaiKen said:

Upon rereading, I see that. I think what was confusing was the comparison with screening adults; in this context, the only screening we do for adults is to exclude them from the program. It is single sanction.

 

If we are going to be fair and honest about this, you're both right.  I was talking about identifying kids to better protect them.  That's true.  But I have stated in earlier posts on other threads that my unit does reject some youth applications.  We don't automatically accept every  boy who asks to join our troop.

 

[Eagle1993]

There is a lot in this document.  I tried to highlight a few key areas I thought were interesting.

https://casedocs.omniagentsolutions.com/cmsvol2/pub_47373/885873_2566.pdf

• It appears that the mediation last week was almost worthless.  
• The TCC's analysis is showing the LC contribution is substantially lower than what they believe they can pay
• Almost no agreement on payments from any insurance companies
• Two major religious institutions have been part of the mediations, but have not offered anything as part of the mediation.
• Major decisions (estimation of damages from district court, decision on HA bases and if they are available for the settlement, JP Morgan debt) must be decided before a plan can even be considered.
• Based on the above, the judge should reject the plan.

There is a lot more in the document, but those were my major takeaways.

I think there is a hearing next week.  I'll be interested to see what the judge says.  I know she raised concern over the spending on the case, but she hasn't taken much action to force closure.  Perhaps she can remove the exclusivity clause and allow the TCC to offer a plan.  I would expect she could rule on the LCs and HA bases (or at least set hearings and close out on these open decisions).  

I'll reference this article again.  Sometimes you simply need to get decisions made within courtrooms before a settlement can be reached.  I certainly hope she starts expediting any decisions within her control.

https://mediatbankry.com/2016/05/05/dont-let-this-happen-to-you-milwaukee-archdiocese-bankruptcy-part-three-the-in-court-slugfest/