Chapter 11 announced - Part 2 (after the big slow)

[ThenNow]

1 hour ago, T2Eagle said:

If I understand correctly, you were a scout in the 70s.  Although it's possible, it's unlikely that your abuser remained in the organization for much past that time.  I'm not sure they would have any computerized record of his membership.  So when you sent a letter where would they record it?  Start a new record for him based on the letter?  Try to resurrect a paper file that's likely moldering in a warehouse somewhere?  I genuinely don't know what they would or could have done with it.

He was very still young in the 70's and I noted he referred to his "retirement from Scouting" not that very long ago. Still, I can't say for sure. Since neither entity replied to me...

I don't know about their files or records or moldering, but National told me they should've had a record of him and were (feigned?) surprise they didn't. They were going to promptly report him to law enforcement until I reminded them I had back when. To me, that urgency said they felt a duty to disclose potential danger. Maybe it was bankruptcy posturing. Why did neither of them reply to my letter in any way? Fear of acknowledging liability, I assume, however old my allegations. Did they notify law enforcement and make note of his name? Can't say.

[yknot]

3 hours ago, fred8033 said:

When BSA adopted external background checks,  BSA should have let the background check system work as designed.  No legal issue?  No background trouble?  Then, it's up to the CO.  Sadly, the ineligible volunteer file probably would be a useful tool.  But it's also a massive liability.

I don't think you mean what you are saying here. Because on some level, the IV files did identify and prevent additional abuse beyond the already mind numbing numbers. I don't think you are saying that having 160,000 kids abused would be worth continuing business as usual today. The BSA lost its soul when it did not realize what those growing numbers in the IV files meant. 

[fred8033]

3 hours ago, ThenNow said:

... denies the well-established fact that most men find it nearly impossible to come forward well into their 40's. 

I do think the age 40s age transition is changing, but I recognize the stigma is still there.

What I meant more was ... if I remember reading your story ... there were other leaders that suspected problems ... there were other parents that were concerned but protected their own kids ... from what I've learned from multiple organizations ... this is common.  There is an inertia to not raise a flag that needs to be overcome.  It did not happen.  That's extremely sad and continued the damage.  .... I think of the Weinstein cases ... dozens of people could have reported, but then put their own success and status at risk.  Thus allowing dozens more be victimized.

What I was referring to was that BSA adopted background checks and notified you.  I would be surprised if BSA's legal experts kept detailed files.  Maybe the files were purged.  I'm surprised the files were not purged far earlier.  Most companies do purge such records to prevent those from being used as evidence in future fishing.  

[fred8033]

46 minutes ago, yknot said:

I don't think you mean what you are saying here. Because on some level, the IV files did identify and prevent additional abuse beyond the already mind numbing numbers. I don't think you are saying that having 160,000 kids abused would be worth continuing business as usual today. The BSA lost its soul when it did not realize what those growing numbers in the IV files meant. 

Sadly, the IV files represented a best effort and a huge legal liability.  So the legal risk almost dictates not maintaining those files.  That happens in other industries too.  Best current example are corporations that force relatively short email retention periods as standard policy that is hard to circumvent.  

I don't agree on BSA losing it's soul.   The numbers are huge, but so is youth membership.  I suspect BSAs numbers are parallel to other youth serving organizations.  

[ThenNow]

2 minutes ago, fred8033 said:

What I meant more was ... if I remember reading your story ... there were other leaders that suspected problems ... there were other parents that were concerned but protected their own kids ... from what I've learned from multiple organizations ... this is common.  There is an inertia to not raise a flag that needs to be overcome.  It did not happen.  That's extremely sad and continued the damage.  .... I think of the Weinstein cases ... dozens of people could have reported, but then put their own success and status at risk.  Thus allowing dozens more be victimized.

What I was referring to was that BSA adopted background checks and notified you. 

Gotcha. I only learned of one person suspecting/knowing(?) 40 years later. As you say, the assumption others did is reasonable.

They didn't notify me of anything.

[yknot]

Just now, fred8033 said:

Sadly, the IV files represented a best effort and a huge legal liability.  So the legal risk almost dictates not maintaining those files.  That happens in other industries too.  Best current example are corporations that force relatively short email retention periods as standard policy that is hard to circumvent.  

I don't agree on BSA losing it's soul.   The numbers are huge, but so is youth membership.  I suspect BSAs numbers are parallel to other youth serving organizations.  

Oy, no. For example, 4-H has significantly more youth members than scouting and you will be hard pressed to find any reports of youth molestation in their ranks. The IV files were an incompetent effort and to some degree they are irrelevant except for the liability insurance question. The claim totals speak for themselves. 

[5thGenTexan]

14 minutes ago, yknot said:

Oy, no. For example, 4-H has significantly more youth members than scouting and you will be hard pressed to find any reports of youth molestation in their ranks. The IV files were an incompetent effort and to some degree they are irrelevant except for the liability insurance question. The claim totals speak for themselves. 

I was looking at our local 4H organization last year for my son.  Might be time to revisit that.  I don't know...

[5thGenTexan]

TCC meeting on Thursday, correct?  Any big news anticipated or expectations?

[ThenNow]

12 minutes ago, 5thGenTexan said:

TCC meeting on Thursday, correct?  Any big news anticipated or expectations?

Survivors and representatives only. This all I know from the docket.

PLEASE TAKE FURTHER NOTICE that the Tort Claimants’ Committee will hold their April virtual town hall meeting on Thursday, April 8, 2021 at 8:00 p.m. (Eastern Time). At this TCC Town Hall, the TCC will explain the recently filed BSA Plan of Reorganization. 

Edited April 6, 2021 by ThenNow

[5thGenTexan]

Looks like this is tonight...

[ThenNow]

7 minutes ago, 5thGenTexan said:

Looks like this is tonight...

Two of her articles:

https://time.com/5645097/boy-scouts-sex-abuse-lawsuit/

https://time.com/5785874/boy-scouts-bankruptcy-sex-abuse/

[RememberSchiff]

Moderator note:

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@MattR @John-in-KC

[MYCVAStory]

On 4/5/2021 at 12:50 PM, ThenNow said:

. I assumed the judge was chastising both parties when she gasped at the $100M nut, but it would've been more accurately directed at the BSA.

Just for some perspective, the TCC's professional fees were approximately 11% at the time of the Judge's comments.  Whether any amount is seen as reasonable or not is up to opinion, the comparison of the TCC's fees to that of the BSA is important to understand.

[vol_scouter]

5 hours ago, yknot said:

Oy, no. For example, 4-H has significantly more youth members than scouting and you will be hard pressed to find any reports of youth molestation in their ranks. The IV files were an incompetent effort and to some degree they are irrelevant except for the liability insurance question. The claim totals speak for themselves. 

Please inform the CDC that what they are now recommending to prevent abuse in youth organizations is an incompetent effort.  It would seem that the BSA was decades ahead of the times.  It seems to me that the problem is with the manner in which the legal system handles such things.

 

[ThenNow]

3 hours ago, 5thGenTexan said:

Looks like this is tonight...

Eliana’s presentation and Q&A went directly to issues of the bankruptcy. Some of my takeaways, based on her thoughts and opinions:

1) BSA historically and systemically failed to protect children, which leads her to conclude she would not trust her kids to the BSA and understands why others don’t;

2) if the BSA is preserved in some form following the bankruptcy, it should not be under the same leaders that “allowed this to happen;”

 3) she prefers criminal prosecutions in matters of sexual abuse so “people go to jail”;

4) She doesn’t believe any amount can truly compensate for “altering the trajectory” of someone’s life, but it’s more important to see survivors compensated than allow the BSA to retain HA and other major properties/assets;

5) she was not extremely well versed in the numbers of the case, admitting that her coverage was more on survivor stories and the movement to see people come forward with their abuse;

6) she has no knowledge of international cases of sexual abuse in the BSA, but wouldn’t be at all surprised if the same scenario was found to exist elsewhere; and 

7) it’s her opinion that another group could do what the BSA set out to do (and be) as well as the BSA or a reboot of it. That organization would have a better chance of being safe with greater inherent accountability and protections established from the jump. She didn’t elaborate.