Bankruptcy Losses

[RememberSchiff]

On 3/2/2022 at 12:59 PM, RememberSchiff said:

Update 03/02/2022:

Trust for Public Land (TPL) Plans to make a Second Offer for Deer Lake

http://digitalpub.chron.com/publication/?i=739966&article_id=4224364&view=articleBrowser&ver=html5

Deer Lake (CT) Update 3/30/2022: The Connecticut Attorney General William Tong is now involved.

Sale of the Deer Lake camp property in Killingworth has garnered significant public attention and interest from community leaders and preservationists. The Office of the Attorney General is currently reviewing questions regarding the legal status of the property and a potential sale. At the request of Attorney General Tong and due the pending inquiry into the property, the Boy Scouts have agreed to delay their decision on the sale of the property until May 1, extending their previous March 31 deadline.

“I thank the Boy Scouts for hearing my concerns and agreeing to postpone this deadline while our inquiry into the property proceeds, and for being cooperative and responsive to our questions. I have heard from a number of community leaders and preservationists who have a strong interest in the future of Deer Lake. I hope that this extended time will allow all sides to work together on a positive resolution,” said Attorney General Tong.

https://portal.ct.gov/AG/Press-Releases/2022-Press-Releases/Attorney-General-Tong-Update-on-Deer-Lake-Sale

https://www.wtnh.com/news/conservation-group-hopes-to-outbid-developer-for-boy-scout-property-in-ct/

Mark Kraus, Scout Executive of the Connecticut Yankee Council, said Wednesday morning that the sale to developers was still in place. Kraus did not respond for a request for comment after Tong’s announcement Wednesday afternoon.

https://www.courant.com/news/connecticut/hc-news-boy-scouts-deer-lake-postpone-deadline-may-1-20220330-5sutpcddqnbdzplgne4qzuzktu-story.html

Edited March 30, 2022 by RememberSchiff

[RememberSchiff]

On 3/26/2022 at 11:05 AM, T2Eagle said:

I was looking for a camp near Niagara Falls and came across this camp --- and the bad news about it.  Doesn't look like we had it on our list yet.

Does anyone know any details about whether Camp Stonehaven will still be operating this summer, or about any other good camping near the falls?

https://buffalonews.com/news/local/boy-scouts-to-sell-camps-in-niagara-wyoming-counties-to-settle-sex-abuse-claims/article_b39d76f6-3767-11ec-91ea-9bed725c0a09.html

Seems promising ...

https://wnyscouting.doubleknot.com/camping/summer-camp-at-camp-scouthaven/67048

Update: 04/02/2022:

Lewiston Supervisor Steve Broderick said the Town Board voted Monday to sign a sale contract to buy Camp Stonehaven for $665,000.

Broderick said Lewiston plans to turn Camp Stonehaven into a nature preserve.

"We may even coordinate with the Western New York Land Conservancy for some protection of some of that land," Broderick said. "It would be open to the public. There's one pavilion out there that we might keep. We're probably looking into getting rid of some of the cabins out there, because we don't want that liability."

"Over the next several months, we will be announcing exciting facility and program enhancements to improve and expand Scouthaven’s role as the pre-eminent home for scouting locally," the Greater Niagara Frontier Council said.

https://buffalonews.com/news/local/local-boy-scout-council-sells-camps-to-fund-share-of-sex-abuse-settlement/article_c2001d10-b12f-11ec-b714-6f955daff0d5.html

Edited April 3, 2022 by RememberSchiff

[yknot]

1 hour ago, RememberSchiff said:

Seems promising ...

https://wnyscouting.doubleknot.com/camping/summer-camp-at-camp-scouthaven/67048

Update: 04/02/2022:

Lewiston Supervisor Steve Broderick said the Town Board voted Monday to sign a sale contract to buy Camp Stonehaven for $665,000.

Broderick said Lewiston plans to turn Camp Stonehaven into a nature preserve.

"We may even coordinate with the Western New York Land Conservancy for some protection of some of that land," Broderick said. "It would be open to the public. There's one pavilion out there that we might keep. We're probably looking into getting rid of some of the cabins out there, because we don't want that liability."

"Over the next several months, we will be announcing exciting facility and program enhancements to improve and expand Scouthaven’s role as the pre-eminent home for scouting locally," the Greater Niagara Frontier Council said.

https://buffalonews.com/news/local/local-boy-scout-council-sells-camps-to-fund-share-of-sex-abuse-settlement/article_c2001d10-b12f-11ec-b714-6f955daff0d5.html

That's some good news. At least it will be preserved. One of the important lessons of the pandemic is that we don't have enough public spaces available, even in pretty rural and undeveloped areas. 

[RememberSchiff]

On 3/30/2022 at 5:43 PM, RememberSchiff said:

Deer Lake (CT) Update 3/30/2022: The Connecticut Attorney General William Tong is now involved.

...

Deer Lake (CT) Update 4/18/2022:  Connecticut Governor Governor and U.S. Senator now involved

Governor Ned Lamont, a Democrat, said he recently toured the Deer Lake Scout Reservation in Killingworth and believes it should remain open space. “It's gorgeous,” Lamont said. “So we could step in as needed. We're not the piggy bank. I like going in along side other people.”

U.S. Sen. Richard Blumenthal also has gotten involved in preservation effort. The Connecticut Democrat said he's looking into the possible use of money from the National Park Service's Land and Water Conservation Fund to help in the purchase of this camp and other Boy Scout properties for sale across the nation.

“Unfortunately, local Boy Scout councils are selling to the highest bidder,” Senator Blumenthal said. “So, I think it is a national challenge, but it goes to the core of what scouting means and the ethos and ethic of scouting, which they may be betraying.”

https://www.fox61.com/article/news/local/connecticut-governor-lamont-conservation-bid-for-boy-scout-camp-deer-lake/520-988adcfc-3928-4e6d-9288-74a23997b6f6

[InquisitiveScouter]

1 minute ago, RememberSchiff said:

but it goes to the core of what scouting means and the ethos and ethic of scouting, which they may be are betraying

fixed that for him...

[yknot]

21 minutes ago, RememberSchiff said:

 

“Unfortunately, local Boy Scout councils are selling to the highest bidder,” Senator Blumenthal said. “So, I think it is a national challenge, but it goes to the core of what scouting means and the ethos and ethic of scouting, which they may be betraying.”

https://www.fox61.com/article/news/local/connecticut-governor-lamont-conservation-bid-for-boy-scout-camp-deer-lake/520-988adcfc-3928-4e6d-9288-74a23997b6f6

That's good news and is exactly what might be a relevant federal role in this situation. May not be able to save boy scouts, but many of these properties are worthy of preservation, especially anywhere on the east coast. While on the one hand I want to see survivors optimally compensated, on the other hand individual communities and states cannot afford to lose some of these as yet undeveloped legacy properties.  The pressure on local, county, state, and federal parkland and wildlands is extreme and the pandemic accentuated that. More acreage and access is needed. 

[Sentinel947]

54 minutes ago, InquisitiveScouter said:

fixed that for him...

Context matters. Selling the camp in order to keep financing a bloated council bureaucracy? Yes. Selling the camp because of the council's financial obligations for abuse victims? No. They have an obligation to the folks they owe money to get as much money as possible. Bad actions have consequences. 

[RememberSchiff]

Deer Lake (CT) Update 4/26/2022: As the Connecticut Yankee Council imposed bid deadline of May 1, approaches...

David Stephenson, an avid birder and supporter of the preservation of Deer Lake ...is seeking a declaratory judgment from the Middlesex Superior Court that any sale of Deer Lake must include a conservation restriction prohibiting any changes to the property inconsistent with its use as a bird sanctuary.

According to the suit, the council received donations from New Haven ornithologist and philanthropist Richard English in 1985 to establish an eponymous bird sanctuary on the 255-acre property located at 101 Paper Mill Road in Killingworth. According to the suit, after the founder’s death in 2011, the Richard L. English Fund continued to make donations to the council amounting to approximately $100,000 annually.

More at source:

https://ctexaminer.com/2022/04/26/lawsuit-against-boy-scouts-says-bird-refuge-at-deer-lake-must-be-preserved/

[SiouxRanger]

Looks like a camp in Illinois has listed for sale a chunk or two of its camp.  Lightly used and not part of the main camp. Ingersoll Scout Reservation.

[RememberSchiff]

Camp Barton, Baden-Powell Council, NY

Three local towns Covert, Ulysses and Trumansburg are working together with state to acquire and manage property.

...the council must contribute over $1 million to a national trust fund being set up for a settlement. 

Public response to the idea of turning the camp into a park has been, by and large, very positive, said Deborah Nottke, Town of Covert deputy supervisor. What do most members of the public say they want from a new public park?

“Kayaking, lake access, to picnic, go for walk, hiking, and just going someplace to enjoy the lake because a lot of people don’t have the money to buy lakeside property, but this way they will always have access to Cayuga Lake,” Nottke said. 

When local officials heard about the sale, they came up with a plan to preserve the scenic green space as a public park and went to local and state lawmakers for help raising awareness about the camp’s precarious future. Eventually word reached Erik Kulleseid, the New York State commissioner of parks. 

More at source:

https://www.ithaca.com/news/regional_news/plans-to-turn-boy-scout-camp-into-park-progressing/article_5ba87464-c65a-11ec-8550-47f1c17b5e92.html

[swilliams]

On 11/29/2021 at 9:43 AM, RandomScouter said:

https://www.nj.com/news/2021/11/2-nj-boy-scout-councils-selling-camps-to-pay-for-sexual-abuse-settlements.html

Patriots Path Council is selling Sabattis, their high adventure camp, and Jersey Shore Council is also selling some property. 

From the article: [quote]The Patriots’ Path Council council did not disclose the purchase price for the Sabattis Adventure Camp. They also did not name the buyer, except to say the purchaser is a neighbor of the camp who has “agreed to permit the council to use the property for at least five more years,” according to the letter from council leaders.[/quote]

One big problem - going back to 2020 - is that with the Covid restrictions placed on the camp by NY State, they are still not running a full program this summer.  We didn't go last year, and are not going this year, and are pretty broken up about it.  It's nice that the purchasers agreed to let council use the property for five years, but kind of pointless if council can't run a robust program.

Are any other council properties being successfully leased back?

[InquisitiveScouter]

19 minutes ago, swilliams said:

From the article: [quote]The Patriots’ Path Council council did not disclose the purchase price for the Sabattis Adventure Camp. They also did not name the buyer, except to say the purchaser is a neighbor of the camp who has “agreed to permit the council to use the property for at least five more years,” according to the letter from council leaders.[/quote]

One big problem - going back to 2020 - is that with the Covid restrictions placed on the camp by NY State, they are still not running a full program this summer.  We didn't go last year, and are not going this year, and are pretty broken up about it.  It's nice that the purchasers agreed to let council use the property for five years, but kind of pointless if council can't run a robust program.

Are any other council properties being successfully leased back?

We were going to Sabattis this summer... then they cancelled all regular program in our week...

I think they are only running two weeks now...and it is really "bring your own merit badge counselors"...at least, that is what they told me last October/November.

They are hosting mostly treks during those weeks.

We are going to Onteora now...

Edited April 28, 2022 by InquisitiveScouter

[RememberSchiff]

11 minutes ago, swilliams said:

Are any other council properties being successfully leased back?

Good question, seems we are being encouraged to look elsewhere for a BSA camp rather than leaseback a former camp.  Would the NCAP still apply to a leased back camp? I doubt Council would get anywhere asking a owner to make changes if the camp was already ACA or state approved.

My $0.02

[mrjohns2]

52 minutes ago, RememberSchiff said:

Would the NCAP still apply to a leased back camp?

Yes. Just like at a camporee at a state park. 

[slocumscout]

All of the camps in Rhode Island have been leased for as far back as I can remember. They're owned by RIBS (Rhode Island Boy Scouts), one of the early organizations that merged with the BSA but continue to exist as the entity that owns those camps. Narragansett Council doesn't own any of them (there is a lot of cross-fertilization between the boards of RIBS and the council, but they are legally distinct entities.) So, there's a lot of precedent there, and yes, NCAP applies.