Bankruptcy Losses

[RememberSchiff]

On 5/22/2022 at 6:14 PM, sst3rd said:

Albright Scout Reservation

Heart of Virginia

The new owner is not allowed to develop as of yet. He's a big contractor in this area. He plans to build his dream house and offer parcels to any family member who wants to build there. I know this, as a friend of mine attended a Silver Beaver Dinner over the weekend at our council camp, and he spoke with our CE after the dinner. There are so many negative things I could say. I am not happy. Everything was nontransparent, etc.......................................................

Hey, but life goes on. It is what it is.

sst3rd

Update 06/08/2022:

The Finley-Albright Boy Scout Reservation is scheduled for closing in August to developer George Emerson; while the sale has not been publicly announced, Emerson confirmed by phone Friday that he has the nearly 550 acres located at 11301 Trents Bridge Road under contract for an undisclosed amount.

...

“The Heart of Virginia Council’s share of the collective survivor trust fund is just over $2 million, due this month,” wrote Heart of Virginia Council Executive George McGovern in a May 12 letter. “The HOVC Board of Directors has identified the Albright Scout Reservation, one of HOVC’s assets, as a means to that end.”

The letter noted that the board of directors would meet later in the month to determine the best path forward to fulfill the $2 million obligation, likely by selling part or all of the Albright property – an 1800s homestead and old working cattle farm north of Lake Chesdin, which was donated to the Scouts and run by volunteers.

 

...

Albright Camp Master and member of the Volunteer Committee – a group of roughly 30 that helped run the camp until many abruptly resigned following news of the sale to a private developer – Rick Fisher calls the sale “fuzzy transparent.” He likened the sale to the end of an era for a property he called a “home away from home,” and “our little slice of heaven out here” as he gazed across the hundreds of acres of wooded area in the hours before he helped check in scouts arriving to camp for the first weekend in June.

...

And while the scouts have another property in Goochland, Camp T. Brady Saunders, it’s different, Fisher says – run by staff, not volunteers – likening it more to an amusement park with a big pirate ship on the pond, camping forts and a dining hall – opposed to the rustic nature of the Albright Reservation with its one running toilet and check-in cabin with electricity.

...

Kevin Kessler is one of the members on the Friends of Albright Committee, a team that submitted a counter offer to purchase the property and allow the continuation of scouting activities.

“The idea was this should have been kept as a scout place in perpetuity, that was the intent of the gift,” Kessler said, explaining that in that spirit a board member resigned to step into the role of what he called “angel investor,” approaching three principals at Albright responsible for developing activities there to help construct a counter offer to the $3.75 million, which he says was the sale price of the property.

“Our offer was $2.4 million for 470 acres plus $600,000 in funds from other angel investors that would have been unrestricted cash – HOVC could use that however they saw fit – and then $400,000 in restricted funds that would have been used at Albright Scout Reservation for upgrades,” Kessler said.

Their offer would have allowed HOVC to keep the core 85 acres where most activities occur and the remainder would have been put into conservation easements and for a dollar a year allowed the scouts to continue using the property for trails, activities and campsites, Kessler said. The caveat, he noted, was that the group was going to timber roughly 270 acres, but in a way that was aesthetically pleasing. He says the group was not allowed in the room at the May 18 meeting where the council decided to go with Emerson’s offer, and the process has left a sour taste.

“I found it very condescending and very inappropriate that they gave us five minutes on a Zoom call, when that meeting was live,” Kessler said. “‘Inconsiderate’ is not even strong enough. We were just very offended that all the volunteers the last 20 years that have worked there weren’t given the consideration to make a plea, a very viable plea to purchase that property.”

He is one of the many to have volunteered thousands of hours over multiple years to bettering the property for multiple generations – building latrines, pavilions, tractor sheds, cutting the grass, developing naturalist programs, labeling species, road maintenance. The list goes on.

“I think a lot of people were just very upset that this was not a more transparent process,” Kessler says. “They have a legal right to sell it if they choose to, but a lot of people think it was the wrong decision and not in the spirit of scouting.”

More at source:

https://www.chesterfieldobserver.com/articles/scout-property-under-contract-with-developer-as-debt-looms/

Sounds very similar to Deer Lake, Connecticut Yankee Council transaction, except Mr. Emerson is not a member of the Council Executive Board.

Edited June 8, 2022 by RememberSchiff

[RememberSchiff]

The Narragansett Council announced in May that its Executive Board decided to sell Camp Cachalot in South Carver, Massachusetts, to the Commonwealth of Massachusetts and to sell Camp Norse in Kingston, Massachusetts, to a separate nonprofit with plans to lease the property. Proceeds from the real estate sales will be part of the council’s $6.45 million contribution to a $2.6 billion sex abuse survivors compensation trust established as a result of a class-action lawsuit against the National Boy Scouts of America.

https://www.nbcboston.com/news/local/boy-scouts-selling-massachusetts-camps-to-pay-for-lawsuit-settlements/2742661/

[ThenNow]

22 hours ago, RememberSchiff said:

“The Heart of Virginia Council’s share of the collective survivor trust fund is just over $2 million, due this month,” wrote Heart of Virginia Council Executive George McGovern in a May 12 letter. “The HOVC Board of Directors has identified the Albright Scout Reservation, one of HOVC’s assets, as a means to that end.”

Riddle me this: What happens if the Chapter 11 global settlement whittles down to the BSA only, Toggle Plan? Did the real estate attorneys for any of these LCs factor in the prospect of retraction or delays in closing, pending the completion of the case? My assumption is, no, since no one expected it to go on this long ON TOP OF most LCs being repeatedly told, "All is well. You're fine. Scouting continues. You're not in bankruptcy, your money won't be needed, no camps will be sold..."

Also, what is the mechanism for delivery the cash and is it all going into a sequestered escrow with the court?

[Tron]

14 minutes ago, ThenNow said:

Riddle me this: What happens if the Chapter 11 global settlement whittles down to the BSA only, Toggle Plan? Did the real estate attorneys for any of these LCs factor in the prospect of retraction or delays in closing, pending the completion of the case? My assumption is, no, since no one expected it to go on this long ON TOP OF most LCs being repeatedly told, "All is well. You're fine. Scouting continues. You're not in bankruptcy, your money won't be needed, no camps will be sold..."

Also, what is the mechanism for delivery the cash and is it all going into a sequestered escrow with the court?

My Council borrowed from the Council Trust (Lucky to have a Council Trust, a different legal entity.), paid those funds to BSA National to cover the Councils liability, and is liquidating assets to pay back the Council Trust within a 3 year time limit. So as far as I know, the local council here has been legally found absolved and is now just trying to reorganize and save Scouting in the local area.

 

[ThenNow]

22 minutes ago, Tron said:

So as far as I know, the local council here has been legally found absolved

That's what I figured. Nope. No absolution via release from liability unless and until the plan is both approved by the bankruptcy court and then blessed by the District Court. It could all crumble, especially the release of Local Councils and Chartered Organizations. Could being operative. I think Judge Silverstein knows full well what would happen if the third parties are not release. Regardless, I don't understand why National does such a poor job of keeping local Scouting apprised. Maybe they do and I just don't see/hear it.

[Eagle94-A1]

1 hour ago, ThenNow said:

 It could all crumble, especially the release of Local Councils and Chartered Organizations.

But aren't the LCs and COs covered by BSA's insurance, at least sine 1976? I know I was told that BSA insurance covered both when I was a DE.

[ThenNow]

1 hour ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

But aren't the LCs and COs covered by BSA's insurance, at least sine 1976? I know I was told that BSA insurance covered both when I was a DE.

You're talking about under the plan, regardless the before or after 1976, yes? IF they're not released, the stay of litigation including live and yet to be filed cases revert back to state courts for litigation and/or settlement. Defend, assert defenses, engage discovery of all types, wrangle through insurance coverage, and the like. In that scenario NOT that it's what's going to happen, it's an "all LCs and COs fend for yourself state of play. I could be wrong. I'm having an out of body day. (Nod to Dr. Strange.)

Apologies to the moderators if this is out of place, but I was attempting to answer the question. Ty.

Edited June 9, 2022 by ThenNow

[Tron]

3 hours ago, ThenNow said:

That's what I figured. Nope. No absolution via release from liability unless and until the plan is both approved by the bankruptcy court and then blessed by the District Court. It could all crumble, especially the release of Local Councils and Chartered Organizations. Could being operative. I think Judge Silverstein knows full well what would happen if the third parties are not release. Regardless, I don't understand why National does such a poor job of keeping local Scouting apprised. Maybe they do and I just don't see/hear it.

I get the whole difficulty in absolution. I was unofficially told that the overwhelming majority of liability that my council holds was inherited from two other councils that folded and their geographic area was "given" to my council. So as far as I can tell when a council folds under strain/lack of finances/lawsuit/etc ... the council that takes "ownership" of the geographic area becomes the responsible party or such.

[Eagle94-A1]

3 hours ago, ThenNow said:

You're talking about under the plan, regardless the before or after 1976, yes? IF they're not released, the stay of litigation including live and yet to be filed cases revert back to state courts for litigation and/or settlement. Defend, assert defenses, engage discovery of all types, wrangle through insurance coverage, and the like. In that scenario NOT that it's what's going to happen, it's an "all LCs and COs fend for yourself state of play. I could be wrong. I'm having an out of body day. (Nod to Dr. Strange.)

Outside of the plan.

Back in the day when I was a DE, I was told as part of my training that BSA's liability insurance covered both the LCs and COs. The reason for coverage was that the charter fee they paid covered the liability insurance for them.

 

3 hours ago, ThenNow said:

Apologies to the moderators if this is out of place, but I was attempting to answer the question. Ty.

Thank you. And Mods, if these posts are out of place, mea culpa.

[T2Eagle]

19 hours ago, ThenNow said:

Riddle me this: What happens if the Chapter 11 global settlement whittles down to the BSA only, Toggle Plan? Did the real estate attorneys for any of these LCs factor in the prospect of retraction or delays in closing, pending the completion of the case? My assumption is, no, since no one expected it to go on this long ON TOP OF most LCs being repeatedly told, "All is well. You're fine. Scouting continues. You're not in bankruptcy, your money won't be needed, no camps will be sold..."

Also, what is the mechanism for delivery the cash and is it all going into a sequestered escrow with the court?

Pure speculation on my part, but I would think that whatever uncertainty there may be for the buyers, that is priced into their offer.  But these are pretty straightforward real estate transactions, there shouldn't be much trouble in closing them.  Multi-million dollar houses close in 45-60 days.

As to where the money goes right away, hopefully into some nice safe investment held by the LC.  I know my own LC isn't and wouldn't turn over any money until the settlement is all blessed and kosher.  

I haven't read into the bowels of the plan to see if there is a process for LCs to pay in and thus secure their release when the time comes.

19 hours ago, ThenNow said:

 Regardless, I don't understand why National does such a poor job of keeping local Scouting apprised. Maybe they do and I just don't see/hear it.

I consider the people who run my council to be friends, but there is such a strong culture of only speaking about things with upbeat and positive spin that it is innate to anyone who has been steeped in that culture.  They instinctively avoid describing situations with precision and depth; even with me, even in casual conversation, they speak that way.  

It reminds me of my old days in the Fortune 500 world, where I had to wrestle with the PR department to not put out statements that were so obfuscating that they became both meaningless AND inaccurate.

[RememberSchiff]

12 minutes ago, T2Eagle said:

Pure speculation on my part, but I would think that whatever uncertainty there may be for the buyers, that is priced into their offer. 

I think we are seeing that with Connecticut Yankee Council sale of Deer Lake. 

On 4/30/2022 at 8:30 PM, RememberSchiff said:

Deer Lake (CT) Update 4/30/2022

Connecticut Yankee Council rejected Pathfinder's second offer on Friday (National Arbor Day?) which was supposedly a "superior offer" to the accepted  $4.6 million bid made by private developer Margaret Streicker, who is a member of the Council Executive Board.

Apparently Pathfinders' Friday offer was not "superior" enough.

Council was asking for $5 million for the parcel, which included a $400,000 kill fee; they had agreed earlier to sell to a developer for $4.6 million. The fee is to break that contract.

 

[InquisitiveScouter]

20 minutes ago, T2Eagle said:

statements that were so obfuscating that they became both meaningless AND inaccurate.

And when these are done intentionally, we call them lies.

[T2Eagle]

20 minutes ago, InquisitiveScouter said:

And when these are done intentionally, we call them lies.

Interestingly, these folks, speaking of this kind of PR stuff broadly not just BSA individually, sincerely don't see it that way. 

One particular argument I remember was when we decided to change a rarely used employee perk, payroll withholding to pay for a discounted car insurance through the company.  We were going to keep the discount but eliminate the withholding.  The reason we were eliminating the withholding was because it was cumbersome and took up a lot of someone's time, but was used by very few employees.  When the PR folks wrote the announcement they were describing the reason for the change as being made to benefit the employees because in the few instances that the perk was used it was so often screwed up in its administration (which it almost always was) that it was more trouble than it was worth.  They really didn't understand that just because that could have been a reason it wasn't actually accurate to say that was the reason when it was purely a cost cutting measure.  

My stance was just tell people the unvarnished truth, it cost more than it was worth and the company was always obligated to think about such things.  I believe that adults can handle bad news if you're honest about it.  The PR folks just really instinctively felt that everything had to be given a positive spin.  They genuinely saw that as right and proper. and not an untruth.

[InquisitiveScouter]

43 minutes ago, T2Eagle said:

The PR folks just really instinctively felt that everything had to be given a positive spin.  They genuinely saw that as right and proper. and not an untruth.

How terrible it will be for those who call evil good and good evil, who substitute darkness for light and light for darkness, who substitute what is bitter for what is sweet and what is sweet for what is bitter! Isa. 5:20

 

[InquisitiveScouter]

One of our guys just finished National Camp School at Ten Mile River.  He said they announced they will be selling approximately 8,000 acres (of 12,000) .  No price mentioned...

Will be sold to State of New York??

Anyone got words on this??