Why can't there be coed Scouts, BSA units? Answer from lastest Scouts, BSA Office Hour - because 50% of boys will leave

[Eagledad]

11 hours ago, ParkMan said:

That was an awful answer.

1. That "girls mature faster than boys" and "we don't want to disadvantage the boys" is the reason, that's an offensive and insulting reason.  That stereotypes each group and neglects the notion that boys and girls can influence each other.  Both genders will benefit from begin around the other.

Yes, but suggesting that both groups are equal is just as stereotypical and neglects possible advantages of single gender approaches. You're is attempting to shut down a thought process again, which is condescending to the other members on the forum.

Until folks are willing to have an intellectual discussion on the subject, it will continue to be a two -sided debate.

I wonder how a discussion on this discussion among intelligent minds would go.

11 hours ago, ParkMan said:

2. If no one on their committee is talking about co-ed troops, they have the wrong people on that committee.  How do we get someone a bit more current on that committee?  I've got no time, but I'll volunteer.  Just PM me.

Seems pretty close minded, even hostile. Do you really believe yours's should be the only one opinion counts in the group? Forget the question, you gave your opinion.

Folks are tired of being discounted and demonized for having a different opinion.

Barry

[ParkMan]

5 hours ago, Eagledad said:

Yes, but suggesting that both groups are equal is just as stereotypical and neglects possible advantages of single gender approaches. You're is attempting to shut down a thought process again, which is condescending to the other members on the forum.

Until folks are willing to have an intellectual discussion on the subject, it will continue to be a two -sided debate.

I wonder how a discussion on this discussion among intelligent minds would go.

A discussion presupposes that there is a way to draw a conclusion on the topic and decide if co-ed is better or not.    There are so many different factors in deciding whether to go co-ed or not.  Each segment of the population is going to have different factors they favor over others.  

Trying to make a decision at the BSA level because "girls mature faster and tend to take over" generalizes two genders overall.  Not every girl is going to take over.  Not ever boy is going to mature more slowly.  It also takes away the opportunity for boys to learn from girls and vice-versa.  

I think it is simply impossible to arrive at general answer to a topic like this.  Different people will want to focus on different things.

Myself - I think we allow individual COs to decide what works best for their members and to pursue the model that is best for them.

5 hours ago, Eagledad said:

Seems pretty close minded, even hostile. Do you really believe yours's should be the only one opinion counts in the group? Forget the question, you gave your opinion.

Folks are tired of being discounted and demonized for having a different opinion.

Barry

I didn't intend my post to be close minded or hostile at all.  I've always favored local choice on this question.  I am not forcing co-ed nor and I saying that single gender is wrong.  I am saying that the BSA should allow for co-ed if a CO wants it.

I do have an issue with that the statement in the video where they said "no one on our committee has even asked about co-ed."  We talk co-ed here on this forum on a regular basis.  I am very surprised that committee that is dealing with this topic doesn't have members that have even asked about it.  It makes me wonder if the committee is inclusive enough in it's representation of Scouting's communities.  If they said "we discuss it periodically and have decided against co-ed Scouting, I could believe."  That they said no one asks about it surprises me. 

My offer was somewhat tongue in cheek - but only slightly.  I have no idea how one gets on a national committee.  But if it's anything like my council's committees - it is all about who you know.  People on committees that decide things are often very entrenched, long time Scouters.  That is often good as experience matters.  Yet, it can also create something of a bubble.  I suspect the number of long time Scouters who want to see co-ed Scouting is lower than the number of general Scouters and even the populace at large.

[yknot]

1 hour ago, ParkMan said:

Myself - I think we allow individual COs to decide what works best for their members and to pursue the model that is best for them.

I do have an issue with that the statement in the video where they said "no one on our committee has even asked about co-ed."  We talk co-ed here on this forum on a regular basis.  I am very surprised that committee that is dealing with this topic doesn't have members that have even asked about it.  It makes me wonder if the committee is inclusive enough in it's representation of Scouting's communities.  If they said "we discuss it periodically and have decided against co-ed Scouting, I could believe."  That they said no one asks about it surprises me. 

Yes, I think the integrated unit ship has sailed. Units should be free to do what works for them much the same BSA allows them to deal with religious issues. Do you want an integrated unit? Fine. Do you want linked units? Fine. Do you want separate girl and boy patrols? Fine. Do you want integrated patrols? Fine.

Also, that guy who was on that zoom meeting needs to be retired, as do probably most of the upper echelon leadership. They've been in an echo chamber and it's hurting scouting. 

When BSA first opted to include girls, I briefly mourned the loss of some boy space for my sons. But the reality is they still have plenty of boy spaces. And most of their world is integrated and that is the world they will need to learn how to thrive in, so for scouting to mirror that is a positive, not a negative in my book. 

[Oldscout448]

21 hours ago, ParkMan said:

That was an awful answer.

1. That "girls mature faster than boys" and "we don't want to disadvantage the boys" is the reason, that's an offensive and insulting reason.  

It may well be offense and insulting to someone. But it's also true. 

[Owls_are_cool]

My Boy's troop has partnered with a Girl's troop and go to the same campouts in the local area. Instead of two troops, it is more like two patrols. Each group camps in a different area, plans/cooks their own meals, etc. 

If the girls are working on rope lashing requirements, I may have some of my boys head over to their camp to earn some requirements and vice versa. The scoutmaster corp of both small troops can help each other out with our unique expertise. We also have two sets of parents with scouts in both troops, so they do not have to choose between far separated campgrounds or have double the weekends to camp if they want to service at the event. 

I think we over emphasize the SPL/Troop when the real scout growth happens in the small patrols.

[InquisitiveScouter]

44 minutes ago, Owls_are_cool said:

My Boy's troop has partnered with a Girl's troop and go to the same campouts in the local area. Instead of two troops, it is more like two patrols. Each group camps in a different area, plans/cooks their own meals, etc. 

If the girls are working on rope lashing requirements, I may have some of my boys head over to their camp to earn some requirements and vice versa. The scoutmaster corp of both small troops can help each other out with our unique expertise. We also have two sets of parents with scouts in both troops, so they do not have to choose between far separated campgrounds or have double the weekends to camp if they want to service at the event. 

I think we over emphasize the SPL/Troop when the real scout growth happens in the small patrols.

Don't tell your council

"Chartering organizations are not authorized to plan, promote, or deliver programs for units outside of their charter."

https://www.scouting.org/coronavirus/covid-19-faq/

[Owls_are_cool]

@InquisitiveScouter We plan separately our campouts, so we meet the spirit of the requirement. We have several adults duel registered. I do appreciate the heads up to keep myself out of trouble with the district and council.

[InquisitiveScouter]

3 minutes ago, Owls_are_cool said:

@InquisitiveScouter We plan separately our campouts, so we meet the spirit of the requirement. We have several adults duel registered. I do appreciate the heads up to keep myself out of trouble with the district and council.

No worries... I think the "policy" is not well thought out, nor articulated, much like the no co-ed thing or co-ed buddy pairs... 

When you do a Webelos recruiting day, for example, isn't that program for a separate unit if packs other than your CO's show??

[Owls_are_cool]

1 minute ago, InquisitiveScouter said:

When you do a Webelos recruiting day, for example, isn't that program for a separate unit if packs other than your CO's show??

This question jogged my memory. I was able to recruit a boy to my troop, because their parents were also looking for a troop for their daughter. Here is the name and phone number of the scoutmaster of the girls troop, that we do stuff together with. Sold. Troop meetings are at two different locations in town on the same night, so that is a pain for them, but when activities are at the same location...perfect. Maybe more adults in both troops should dual-register to comply with the directive you noted.

[mrjohns2]

1 hour ago, Owls_are_cool said:

I was able to recruit a boy to my troop, because their parents were also looking for a troop for their daughter. Here is the name and phone number of the scoutmaster of the girls troop, that we do stuff together with. Sold. Troop meetings are at two different locations in town on the same night, so that is a pain for them, but when activities are at the same location...perfect.

Our CO has determined that "family scouting" means meeting in the same location, same night, different rooms. It worked well until the pandemic. Cubs, girl troop, and boy troop all fit at one school. Den meetings in 6 rooms, girls troop in a community room, and boys troop in the cafeteria. It works very well for families. 

[KublaiKen]

Wasn't that one of the things BSA touted when they opened Cub Scouts and Scouts BSA to girls: that families now could have a shared activity instead of two or more? That only works if they are meeting/camping at the same place and at the same time, or you are still driving multiple places on multiple weekends, etc.

[mrjohns2]

9 minutes ago, KublaiKen said:

That only works if they are meeting/camping at the same place and at the same time, or you are still driving multiple places on multiple weekends, etc.

Meetings are the same place and time. Campouts are the same weekend, meet at same place, same time, but 9 out of 12 are different locations. So, adults must choose who to go with. 

[KublaiKen]

1 hour ago, mrjohns2 said:

Meetings are the same place and time. Campouts are the same weekend, meet at same place, same time, but 9 out of 12 are different locations. So, adults must choose who to go with. 

Got it. Although, to be clear, I didn't mean your specific scenario as much as a general idea that BSA created a certain rationale and expectation but now says it is inappropriate to mingle with another unit.

I think of all the many, many reasons I keep National on my speed dial </sarcasm>, telling them that boy and girl Scouts are working together will be the last reason I tell on somebody.

[Armymutt]

As a Scout who was shy around girls, I would not have wanted a co-ed troop.  It would have been high school extended into Tuesday nights.  I got a taste of it at Kandersteg when there were female Scouts there.  Guys who were friends turned into total d-bags trying to impress the Norwegian and Italian girls.  With the added sexual pressure from the presence of girls, we would not have had a night of running around the "Pioneer Stampede" camporee in our underwear.  While we got in trouble, it built a huge amount of esprit de corps and brought us closer together.  Almost 30 years on, I only talk to the guys from HS who were in my troop.  

[The Latin Scot]

I agree; the idea of fully co-ed Scouting is, in my eyes and in my opinion, the worst possible thing that could happen to the BSA; it flies utterly in the face of what Scouting for boys is supposed to be, to do, and to accomplish, and all the good it is intended to do for boys will be lost when they are forced to share this program with girls. If they can no longer even have their own, separate troops without girls being part of them, the program loses the very sense of ownership that empowers, emboldens, and encourages boys to try new things, stretch themselves, and push their limits without the crushing self-awareness that, as anybody who has ever been human can attest, affects young boys when girls are present. 

The day the BSA decides to fully integrate a co-ed model into Scouting must, so help me, be the day I finally hang up my hat. There are some principles with which we can bend, but others, against which we must stand. Robbing our youth of their separate-gender privileges is one of the latter in my eyes.