YP and other stuff spun from Ch 11

[ThenNow]

28 minutes ago, David CO said:

Since I have yet to see any BSA training session that had any value, I would have to say no.  But who knows, you might be the first.

I remained puzzled. Are you referring to YPT or any/all BSA training? If YPT, is the program/course you teach preferable in content and presentation, such that you want to package it and make it available to all? I'm not being (totally) facetious. Since I am not familiar with the course title you noted back when, I may have misperceived its content and goal.

The puzzlement goes not only to the subject of training, but why you persist in Scouting rather than start your own venture. 

[David CO]

1 minute ago, ThenNow said:

The puzzlement goes not only to the subject of training, but why you persist in Scouting rather than start your own venture. 

I have been asked that question several times on this forum.  It isn't my choice.  If it was my choice, I would have the diocese pull out of scouting.  

[David CO]

10 minutes ago, ThenNow said:

is the program/course you teach preferable in content and presentation, such that you want to package it and make it available to all?

My class is much better than anything I have seen in BSA.  BSA would never have it, since it presents many points of view and includes a lively discussion.  

[ThenNow]

5 minutes ago, David CO said:

My class is much better than anything I have seen in BSA.  BSA would never have it, since it presents many points of view and includes a lively discussion.  

Not my question or invitation. Let's see the goods. Open wide the doors and allow in the unfortunate, ignorant, unskilled and misinformed hoi polloi. I'm dead serious. Please video the course, scan the materials and make both available via weblink. I would appreciate the opportunity to view, review, learn, compare, contrast and understand what I am missing. Regardless your low opinion of BSA or YPT, if you care about kids, as you say, you will share the better tool with those who do, as well.

Edited March 11, 2021 by ThenNow

[David CO]

2 minutes ago, ThenNow said:

I'm dead serious. 

No you're not.  

[ThenNow]

22 minutes ago, David CO said:

I'm dead serious. 

That's rich. I'm sorry. Wait while I: (1) call my psychologist to see if she can cut through my apparent delusion and disabuse me of what I thought was an unvarnished emotion and motivation; and (2) see if my psychiatrist has a corresponding psychotropic to treat the condition.

NOW I will be as serious as serious can be. Seriously and genuinely. Are YOU serious? There must be another thread to start or something, because I thought we're talking about training Scouters to help prevent abuse in the ranks. If your course is better, please share it. Can anyone assist me or shall I further bloody my head against the proverbial periderm. Seriously...

Edited March 11, 2021 by ThenNow

[ThenNow]

20 hours ago, David CO said:

Erin's Law

Here is a link to this course. http://www.erinslaw.org/for-teachers/

I've quickly reviewed the site, pull down tab content, assessments of the program, the Texas law regarding its implementation and a few of the founder's videos. Excellent information, including how to identify signs of abuse, engage children who report or show signs of abuse and report instances of suspected or reported abuse. I see nothing about preventative measures to identify inclinations toward sexual abuse by adults toward children or older children to other children.

I will go further to see what I can find, but this is an "in the moment" identification and reactive training. So far, I have seen not any bit of material addressing structural or institutional measures to defend children against potential abuse/abusers in settings that are "soul killing fields" for children. Totally different subject matter. It looks to be very good, but I hope you are not taking its lack of content aimed at prevention as inference that such training and adoption is somehow invalid or unnecessary. That kind of assumption flies in the face of scientific analysis, basic common sense, and serious intellectual curiosity. Also, nothing could be further from the truth, imho. I know you disagree with my opinion. I'm looking for substance to help remedy the situation and shortfalls in YPT, not pot shots at me or my views. I'm really wanting to be constructive and helpful. If there is nothing substantive, I will drop this effort.

Edited March 11, 2021 by ThenNow
Typo

[David CO]

1 hour ago, ThenNow said:

I hope you are not taking its lack of content aimed at prevention as inference that such training and adoption is somehow invalid or unnecessary. That kind of assumption flies in the face of scientific analysis, basic common sense, and serious intellectual curiosity. Also, nothing could be further from the truth, imho.

It is enough for me that you acknowledge the fact that a major program on child sexual abuse does not go into the concept of "grooming".  I think the inference is clearly there.  You are free to disagree.

[CynicalScouter]

17 minutes ago, David CO said:

It is enough for me that you acknowledge the fact that a major program on child sexual abuse does not go into the concept of "grooming". 

Except that it does. Even the program you tout as amazing and better than BSA/YPT discusses "grooming".

http://www.erinslaw.org/tag/grooming/

https://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Aerinslaw.org%2F+grooming

https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-d&q="erin's+law"+grooming

The Illinois Erin's Law Task Force report to the Illinois General Assembly discussed that grooming is REAL and not as you claim "psychobabble". https://www.isbe.net/Documents/erins-law-final0512.pdf

The National Conference of State Legislatures which tracks the states that have adopted Erin's Law note that "grooming" is in fact part of Erin's Law education and training and in many states is even written into the statute itself. https://www.ncsl.org/research/human-services/erins-law-and-child-sexual-abuse-prevention-laws.aspx

Examples of the word "groom" or "grooming" appearing directly in the statute include Connecticut: Conn. Gen. Stat. Ann. § 17a-101q and Oregon ORS 336.059.

The fact that you CONTINUE to dismiss grooming as psycho-babble makes me sick to my stomach.

MODS: Feel free to ban me. But I am NOT going to be simply let this go by just so you can appease @David CO.

This is too important to simply be silent about.

GROOMING IS REAL.

IT IS NOT PSYCHO-BABBLE.

Edited March 11, 2021 by CynicalScouter

[ThenNow]

32 minutes ago, David CO said:

It is enough for me that you acknowledge the fact that a major program on child sexual abuse does not go into the concept of "grooming".  I think the inference is clearly there. 

Last point on this unless someone else interjects something constructive to advance the topic.

As a teacher, that is simply not consistent with reason. Here are two examples why.

In a driver's ed course, one of two modules making up the training focuses on learning to drive (offense). It trains student to focus on one of two critical aspects of being a good, safe and effective driver. In the same course, there is at least one other critical component, namely, "looking out for the other drivers" (defense). The elements include road awareness, alertness (as with offense), evasive maneuvers, checking mirrors and the like. Do you agree both are critical and viable? One more example and I'll apply it.

In football, there are three structural "teams" that make up the overall the game: offense, defense and special teams. Within those, there are many specialties. Let's say you are the defensive line coach. Following your "logic," you believe and express to the team that: 

1) the other aspects of the game, whether the other two general "sides of the ball" or the positions within the defense are, invalid, superfluous and theoretical nonsense; and

2) you are perfectly and unequivocally able to win games with your linemen alone. Everyone else can quit and go home because they are a theoretical fiction in the development of the game.

With your reactive training to prevent child abuse, you believe you can do it better and more thoroughly than with other complimentary measures. Simply stated, I really, really want to come to one of your football games and watch your defensive line take on the full lineup of the opposing team.

-The End (most likely)

Edited March 11, 2021 by ThenNow

[ThenNow]

10 minutes ago, CynicalScouter said:

Even the program you tout as amazing and better than BSA/YPT discusses "grooming".

Thanks for following up and digging further into the program. I wasn't able to do it today.

[MattR]

I tried. I failed. Someone told me my pay grade doesn't cover this. I have to go get a vaccine shot and make chicken stock to make it through the upcoming storm. I locked the thread.

If you really think you can move this thread forward, please just start a new one.