David CO Posted March 16, 2021 Share Posted March 16, 2021 39 minutes ago, 5thGenTexan said: This is me. Early 80s. CM who is hanging me upside down is my dad. Oh, the humanity! Hang on to that picture. If BSA survives the current round of lawsuits, you might be eligible for the next round. Maybe in 10 years. This may be your retirement plan. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattR Posted March 16, 2021 Share Posted March 16, 2021 There seems to be a few issues in all of this. The use of simple rules to avoid danger rather than, say, training as used for water, shooting and climbing activities. Creating rules for problems that don't really exist, such as holding a scout upside down. For those that don't want to be held upside down, just ask the scout and take their word for it. National doesn't trust units and vice versa. Units can do as they please because the only corrective action is drastic and therefore rarely used. It doesn't take many bad actors before we all suffer. Is that a reasonable summary? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David CO Posted March 16, 2021 Share Posted March 16, 2021 40 minutes ago, MattR said: It doesn't take many bad actors before we all suffer. Tell me about it. Have you seen what passes for television lately? 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TAHAWK Posted March 16, 2021 Share Posted March 16, 2021 We watch, at most, five hours a week of TV. No sports. No "[un]reality TV, especially no TV prostitution. A pronounced political point-of-view that assumes that no rational fair-minded person could doubt that view in any detail. No journalism, just opinion and echo chambers repeating what someone said with no effort at verification or objective context. Libraries closing was the worse aspect of the Civid-19 Winter for us. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CynicalScouter Posted March 16, 2021 Share Posted March 16, 2021 1 hour ago, MattR said: National doesn't trust units and vice versa. Er, sorta. Guide to Safe Scouting is a compendium of "SOME Council or SOME camp or National once upon a time got sued for this, therefore we have to ban it." So, while National may trust 90% of units, even 99%, they have written a manual for the "Edge case", that 1% of instances (or even less) where something went wrong and BSA and/or the LC got sued for it. In risk management it is called a high consequence low probability event. And with a scared, panicked, bankrupt National freaking out, all you have to say is "safe scouting" and they'll jam it into Guide to Safe Scouting even if what it really amounts to is a programmatic change they want to beat into unit leader's heads. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattR Posted March 16, 2021 Share Posted March 16, 2021 41 minutes ago, David CO said: Tell me about it. Have you seen what passes for television lately? No. We first moved to our current house some 25 years ago, have never paid for cable and are just a bit too far away to pick up any channels. 12 minutes ago, CynicalScouter said: So, while National may trust 90% of units, even 99%, they have written a manual for the "Edge case", that 1% of instances (or even less) where something went wrong and BSA and/or the LC got sued for it. Hence, my last point about TV. If they trusted 90-99% of units then those units would be able to use electric screwdrivers and climb on rocks above 6 feet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InquisitiveScouter Posted March 17, 2021 Share Posted March 17, 2021 (edited) Here's something interesting to peruse...it's the YMCA insurance questionnaire the Great American Insurance Group uses to begin the underwriting process. https://www.greatamericaninsurancegroup.com/docs/default-source/specialty-human-services/ymca-questionnaire.pdf?sfvrsn=c4f943b1_6 Take note under abuse/molestation coverage.... "Is your organization Praesidium Certified?" Never heard of this with BSA... https://website.praesidiuminc.com/wp/ Probably best posted under YP thread...sorry moved here by RS Edited March 17, 2021 by RememberSchiff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CynicalScouter Posted March 17, 2021 Share Posted March 17, 2021 18 hours ago, MattR said: Hence, my last point about TV. If they trusted 90-99% of units then those units would be able to use electric screwdrivers and climb on rocks above 6 feet. But National has no way of knowing that that 99% are. And the old/ancient idea that COs would serve that function to vet and maintain oversight is just laughable. So, because National cannot vet, and COs won't vet, then the only thing left is rules written for the 1%. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattR Posted March 17, 2021 Share Posted March 17, 2021 5 hours ago, CynicalScouter said: because National cannot vet, and COs won't vet, then the only thing left is rules written for the 1%. I don't think it's the only thing left. Now, it is if the only tool they have is to write rules. But maybe they could think a bit wider. Consider my first point way up above: shooting sports, water sports and climbing. Given that those are always popular activities at summer camp maybe we should be doing more of that. I would be willing to get tool certified to both allow my scouts to have more fun and, just as importantly, make the g2ss more realistic so there's less cutting of corners. Now, before you say a certification process is expensive, just make an online training for it. Considering that the most important training the bsa has, YPT, is done online, this should be easy. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InquisitiveScouter Posted March 18, 2021 Share Posted March 18, 2021 BSA just released updated tool guidelines...finally, some sensible changes... https://filestore.scouting.org/filestore/healthsafety/pdf/680-028.pdf?utm_source=scoutingwire&utm_campaign=swvolunteer3172021&utm_medium=email&utm_content= 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagle94-A1 Posted March 18, 2021 Share Posted March 18, 2021 Branding irons can only be used by adults now?!?!?!?!?!?! Guess Philmont, and other camps need to get rid of their branding irons since the Scouts can no longer do it. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5thGenTexan Posted March 18, 2021 Share Posted March 18, 2021 I am relieved the dangers of paint rollers has been recognized. Especially those with extensions. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagle1993 Posted March 18, 2021 Share Posted March 18, 2021 8 hours ago, InquisitiveScouter said: BSA just released updated tool guidelines...finally, some sensible changes... https://filestore.scouting.org/filestore/healthsafety/pdf/680-028.pdf?utm_source=scoutingwire&utm_campaign=swvolunteer3172021&utm_medium=email&utm_content= They lowered the age limit for many power tools. I’ll give a thumbs up as I see this as a move in the right direction! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InquisitiveScouter Posted March 18, 2021 Share Posted March 18, 2021 (edited) 7 hours ago, Eagle94-A1 said: Branding irons can only be used by adults now?!?!?!?!?!?! Guess Philmont, and other camps need to get rid of their branding irons since the Scouts can no longer do it. Yeah, that one has me scratching my head... I did say "some" sensible changes Edited March 18, 2021 by InquisitiveScouter 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InquisitiveScouter Posted March 18, 2021 Share Posted March 18, 2021 20 minutes ago, Eagle1993 said: They lowered the age limit for many power tools. I’ll give a thumbs up as I see this as a move in the right direction! And carts (wagons) are back! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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