Shoulder loop & unit number color with ODR uniform?

[dlhoovler]

New to the forums but not to Scouting--went from Cubs through to Eagle as a youth and have been involved with my son's Cub Scout Pack for the past four years. Now he's crossed over to a Troop, and I'm looking to update my Scouter uniform shirts accordingly--which leads to an admittedly esoteric question.

I have a long-sleeve Oscar de la Renta shirt like I wore as a Scout, but what color shoulder loops and unit numbers should I wear with it? Obviously, during the era of the shirt, they were red. But aesthetically and from a uniformity standpoint, I lean toward the current olive, which is worn by most of the Scouters and all of the Scouts in the Troop.

I've seen conflicting information about best practice in this case: that there's free interchangeability among components of the ODR/Centennial/current uniforms (suggesting that wearing the olive insignia would be fine), OR that older uniforms are appropriate only if they are "complete" (suggesting going with the red). But I haven't found a clear answer about current insignia on ODR uniforms--just discussions of the pre-1980 uniforms.

Several of the longer-term Scouters in the Troop have ODR shirts and wear red insignia on them, most likely because they've had them for years and saw no need to update. In my case, though, I'm setting up fresh and could just as easily go either way (I also have a short-sleeve Centennial shirt I will be putting the olive insignia on, no question). I strongly doubt using either color would garner a comment from anyone in the Troop, but I'd like to be as correct as possible.

Any advice?

-David

[RememberSchiff]

@dlhoovler on behalf on scouter.com moderators, welcome.

[fred8033]

3 hours ago, dlhoovler said:

Any advice?

Personal choice.  Both are valid.  I prefer the green as they are iess "flashy".  Red reminds me of a 1970s style.

It's always been a bit "iffy" as all past uniforms are still valid.  BUT, I never ready about mixing and matching.  

At some point, the most important thing is your troop looks sharp and similar.  Look at your troop and youth.  If "ALL" leaders are wearing red, maybe you want red.  If some are each color and youth are mostly green, maybe wear green.

Your choice.  I prefer the green as it's less flashy.

 

Edited February 24, 2021 by fred8033

[CynicalScouter]

3 hours ago, dlhoovler said:

but what color shoulder loops and unit numbers should I wear with it?

The rule is that "once official, always official".

Although the red loops are no longer the color worn for what is now Scouts, BSA (then Boy Scouts) you can wear them if you'd like.

Mix and match is also OK as well. So wear your 1910 pants with your 2021 shirt. Whatever.

 

Quote

Can I mix and match old and new uniform pieces?

Yes. For example, you could wear the new tan Scouts BSA uniform shirt with previous-generation green uniform pants.

 

 

Edited February 24, 2021 by CynicalScouter

[MattR]

Welcome to the forum. 

First, the BSA is full of mythical rules. If anyone tells you there's a rule of how something has to be done, politely ask where it's written. Uniforms, knife blade lengths, whatever. Unfortunately, there are also written down rules that conflict with others as well, but that's a different story.

Next, if you have the option to go red or green, ask your SM or ASMs. Maybe they care and maybe they don't. I can understand that you don't want to rock the boat, being new. Either way, have fun and help out. That's likely what the other scouters would really like to see.

[qwazse]

Welcome to the forums!

As St. Ambrose told St. Monica, "When in Rome ..."

Ask your troop if their are any insignia dorks among the leadership, and pose the question to them. If nobody in the troop has an opinion, here's mine:

Since you're buying loops and #s anyway, match whatever your son's doing. Me personally, I just get whatever is selling for less at the time and slap it together.

Don't bother trying to "stay vintage" unless you're also going to stick with a vintage council strip and other patches that you may have worn as a scout that would carry forward when you turned 18. And, the only reason to do that is if you ever expect to give your shirt to a scouter from another country letting him/her know that you tried to maintain its historical accuracy. When you pass off a uniform as vintage, however, it is good form to keep a card with it explaining the period that your trying to match, and the meaning of each insignia. This helps the person who gets the shirt to appreciate the effort that you made and increases the likelihood that the shirt will travel the globe as one whole unit. This is a nice way to navigate the scouterverse, but too much work for me!

Edited February 24, 2021 by qwazse

[Eagle94-A1]

Welcome back.

As you noted, the ODR and Centennial uniforms are fully interchangeable. So yes you can wear current insignia with the ODR and wear vintage insignia with he Centennial Uniform. BSA even published information stating full interchangeability. While some folks will argue you can no longer do so, once uniform, always uniform.  So you can wear your "vintage 2009+" uniform.

[Chisos]

As the others have said, unless you troop is trying to do a "vintage look" or something, there's no issue with green loops on the ODR shirt.  I've got a mix of ODR and Centennial shirts and use green loops on them all.

What I find more impressive is that your shirt still fits...my youth shirt and Philmont belt shrank considerably when in storage in the "inactive years" between "Scout" and "Scouter"!

[dlhoovler]

Thank you, everyone, both for the advice and the warm welcome! As I suspected, either red or olive would be "correct," so the best bet is just to have a casual conversation with the Scoutmaster and/or other leaders as I come on board--though casual conversations are more challenging in the midst of COVID and Zoom meetings. Or just go forward with the olive. 

And @Chisos, this isn't actually my original shirt from my Scout years. I've looked for that old shirt everywhere but haven't found the right box yet. Although I probably shouldn't mention that the "new" one off eBay is a size smaller than the one I wore in 1995... 😏

-David

[fred8033]

Again a personnal choice ... if you wear red loops, find matching red troop numbers.  Yes interchangable per BSA, but you do look want to look sharp and consistent.  And, not like the proverbial Johnny Cash free Cadillac that he picked up at the factory.