Be The Change, Inaugural Class of Female Eagle Scouts, Feb 21, 8pm ET

[Eagledad]

13 minutes ago, KublaiKen said:

I respectfully disagree with this.

1. There has been plenty of fanfare about boys reaching Eagle in the past 110 years. That is what has made it one of the single-most recognizable and lauded youth accomplishments, and one that has carried into adulthood for 110 years.

2. Because girls have not had that opportunity for over a century, this occasion is historic, noteworthy, and therefore newsworthy.

3. A struggling organization like the BSA, both in finances and in public perception, would be somewhere between naive and negligent not to take advantage of this as a PR blast.

4. This is an excellent opportunity for an organization being sued by the Girl Scouts to amplify its message and delineate the proprietary nature of what girls in Scouts BSA means.

So, you believe the GSUSA Gold Award is not as worthy of an accomplishment as the Eagle. 

Irony is that I find all discussions of BSA girls showing off to the GSUSA as sexest as the intent of the bragging. Better to say nothing because there is no moral high road in such comments. 

Barry

[KublaiKen]

7 minutes ago, Eagledad said:

So, you believe the GSUSA Gold Award is not as worthy of an accomplishment as the Eagle. 

Irony is that I find all discussions of BSA girls showing off to the GSUSA as sexest as the intent of the bragging. Better to say nothing because there is no moral high road in such comments. 

Barry

Not at all, nor did I say that. That it isn't as publicly recognized or lauded is simply true. And none of this is about showing off to the GSUSA; it's in  part (and in my view) a way to publicly demonstrate that the two organizations are not the same, and that these girls are members of Scouts BSA. There is nothing in my view of this that is sexist nor bragging; the BSA would be foolish to ignore this PR opportunity at almost every level, and those who oppose it are, in my view, hiding the sexist view that girls don't belong behind a "what about the boys" argument.

Edited February 24, 2021 by KublaiKen
Evidently I get paid per use of the word "view."

[tnmule20]

5 minutes ago, Eagledad said:

So, you believe the GSUSA Gold Award is not as worthy of an accomplishment as the Eagle. 

Irony is that I find all discussions of BSA girls showing off to the GSUSA as sexest as the intent of the bragging. Better to say nothing because there is no moral high road in such comments. 

Barry

Even more ironic is the girls are earning the GSUSA Gold Award and the BSA Eagle rank and bragging that they are able to do so. 

[KublaiKen]

3 minutes ago, tnmule20 said:

Even more ironic is the girls are earning the GSUSA Gold Award and the BSA Eagle rank and bragging that they are able to do so. 

Being recognized for an incredible accomplishment is not the same as bragging.

Bragging

Fanfare

Grandstanding

Your choice of terms when describing the well-earned recognition these incredible girls and young women are receiving is interesting.

[qwazse]

2 hours ago, CynicalScouter said:

I think the question will be a lifting on the prohibition on co-ed units. Right now a unit CANNOT be co-ed and there are specific rules against it. I would be inclined to think in 2-4 years that the restriction will be lifted, resulting in B, G, and B/G units.

Linked troops allow for all the interaction requested by most American youth. So, what happens in the next few years will depend on the long-term stability of units for girls, and the affordability of a CO chartering two linked-units. If linked units wind up posing a bureaucratic nightmare at the CO level, then we'll see demand for integrated units.

As @Eagledad mentioned, depth of leadership is the limiting factor -- especially for linked troops. Joint activities would require, at minimum, two female adult leaders. And, in the real world, female adults will have obligations to girl-specific scouting organizations as well as Scouts BSA.

I find it a source of dismay that BSA and GS/USA have not collaborated to form an association to honor the youth who earned top awards in either organization.

[tnmule20]

4 minutes ago, KublaiKen said:

Your choice of terms when describing the well-earned recognition these incredible girls and young women are receiving is interesting.

What are you inferring?

[KublaiKen]

1 minute ago, tnmule20 said:

What are you inferring?

That your choice of terms when describing the well-earned recognition these incredible girls and young women are receiving is interesting.

[Eagledad]

40 minutes ago, KublaiKen said:

4. This is an excellent opportunity for an organization being sued by the Girl Scouts to amplify its message and delineate the proprietary nature of what girls in Scouts BSA means.

Seems like you poking the GSUSA in the eye to me.

I'm tired of hypocrites using girls in the BSA as a prop to brag about girls in scouting without any comment of the existing Girl scouting organizing that does not promote a co-ed program. The BSA took a lot of heat for not being, well lets say progressive, but the GSUSA gets a pass. Comes off a pollical male bashing to me. You have your coed BSA, now go deride the GSUSA like you did to the BSA and push for the first 1000 Gold Award males. 

Barry

[David CO]

2 minutes ago, KublaiKen said:

Being recognized for an incredible accomplishment is not the same as bragging.
 

Earning eagle scout is not an incredible accomplishment.  Anyone can do it.  Most people don't think its worth the effort, and concentrate their time and energies on other activities, like work, school, or sports.  Being recognized for eagle scout isn't bragging.  Pretending that it is an incredible accomplishment is bragging.

Yes.  BSA is making too big a deal out this "inaugural class" of eagle scouts.  But BSA makes too big a deal out of eagle scout in general.  They make it sound like the end-all and be-all of scouting.  It isn't.  

BSA is once again pushing the eagle scout award because it is the simple and lazy thing to do.  It is much easier to put a spotlight on eagle scouts than it is to demonstrate the benefit of scouting to the 96% of scouts who do not pursue the award. 

[tnmule20]

21 minutes ago, KublaiKen said:

That your choice of terms when describing the well-earned recognition these incredible girls and young women are receiving is interesting.

Thank you for your opinion. 

Everyone has one. 

The fanfare and grandstanding is the fault of the BSA. Over the top. 

The bragging is the fault of the girls or their parents doing so. 

Humility is a virtue. 

[KublaiKen]

And I think the BSA'a approach has been a good one. I get it that not all (or any) may agree with me. I'm OK with that.

 

As for the GSUSA, I passively support the organization and wish them well, but my active support (dollars and volunteer hours) is for the BSA, so that is where I'll target my opinions.

[CynicalScouter]

2 hours ago, tnmule20 said:

Boys have been earning the Eagle rank for the past 110 years or so without all the fanfare. Hopefully things will get back to normal without all the grandstanding. 

1) We honor Rosa Parks for refusing to give up her seat on that bus. Too much "fanfare" about her. Too much "Grandstanding". White people had been sitting on buses for years!

2) We honor Susan B. Anthony and the other suffragettes for getting (and exercising) the right to vote. Too much "fanfare" about her. Too much "Grandstanding". Men had been voting for 200+ years!

3) We honor Sandra Day O’Connor as the first woman on the Supreme Court. Too much "fanfare" about her. Too much "Grandstanding". Men had been doing it for over 200+ years!

I'm with you man. We have no business honoring women firsts whatsoever. Too much "fanfare" about her. Too much "Grandstanding".

[Eagledad]

4 minutes ago, tnmule20 said:

Thank you for your opinion. 

Everyone has one. 

The fanfare and grandstanding is the fault of the BSA. Over the top. 

The bragging is the fault of the girls or their parents doing so. 

Humility is a virtue. 

Yes, humility is the fertile ground of morality. 

I don't have a problem with the BSA bragging a little about this, it's marketing after all. What I can't stand is that the recognition is more about a political correctness victory than the personal accomplishment of 1000 individuals. Which gets back to my comment about hypocrisy, is there any mention of the GSUSA as single sex scouting program? Probably the only single sex scouting program left. Activism seems to go only one way in this hostile culture. 

Barry

[CynicalScouter]

29 minutes ago, David CO said:

Anyone can do it. 

Until 18-20 months ago, no. Not "anyone" could do it. Only boys/men could.

[CynicalScouter]

16 minutes ago, tnmule20 said:

The bragging is the fault of the girls or their parents doing so. 

I sure hope you've castigated any/all boys who have celebrated their Eagle scout status as "bragging". I'm betting, however, you have not.