Troop & family camping

[mrjohns2]

I am ok about no tenting with parents. There are issues other than just abuse by parents. Scouts and adults are supposed to tent in separate areas of camp. If the scouts and parents are sharing tents, this can't happen. One of the reasons for this is people are opening and closing tent flaps, changing in tents, etc. It just makes good sense. 

[qwazse]

So few parents ever camp with us, that I am thrilled when they come along. I gently ease the parent into our culture.

I have far too many fish to fry to worry about a parent and child who want to camp together. It's a phase that I've never seen last long enough to be disruptive.

If I can get my patrols to camp 300' from each other and me, the parent thing will never be a problem. My coffee is just that good.

Regarding @karunamom3's council recommendation, I am very skeptical about how this might curb airborne pathogen transmission. Cars and cabins have the manifest risk. By virtue of ventilation, tents and tarps are probably safer than school.

Edited February 19, 2021 by qwazse

[yknot]

1 hour ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

I guess cooking, door to door sales, and maybe even Scouting For Food, and other activities are on their way to being banned since  OSHA requires cooks to be 16+ and going door to door is 18+.

Door to door sales by minors are illegal in many states. Some allow kids over the age or 14 or 16, some of those only with a permit. From I've seen, scouting is mostly oblivious of this because it continually pushes door to door popcorn sales. In some states it also includes solicitation so that would preclude scouting for food.

 

[CynicalScouter]

12 minutes ago, yknot said:

Door to door sales by minors are illegal in many states. Some allow kids over the age or 14 or 16, some of those only with a permit. From I've seen, scouting is mostly oblivious of this because it continually pushes door to door popcorn sales. In some states it also includes solicitation so that would preclude scouting for food.

Every one of those statutes provides a charity and/or 501(c)(3) exemption. Some specify the Boy Scouts by name. It isn't that BSA is oblivious, it is that it is exempt.

This is Virginia's language https://law.lis.virginia.gov/vacode/title40.1/chapter5/section40.1-112/
 

Quote

§ 40.1-112. Solicitation generally.

A. In order to provide for enforcement of the child labor laws and the protection of employees, it shall be unlawful for any person, firm or corporation, except a nonprofit organization as defined in § 501(c) (3) of the United States Internal Revenue Code, to engage in or to employ any person for, or suffer or permit any person in his employment to work in, any trade in any street or public place, including but not limited to candy sales or soliciting for commercial purposes, selling, or obtaining subscription contracts or orders for books, magazines or other periodical publications other than newspapers, without obtaining from the Commissioner a permit to conduct such business.

 

Edited February 19, 2021 by CynicalScouter

[InquisitiveScouter]

2 hours ago, CynicalScouter said:

That is where things like tower rules and no parents in tents come from; ONE case or ONE instance of a successful lawsuit of a scout being injured from a tower or a parent/step-parent abusing their kid at a Scout event (and it has happened) and BSA is going to put in a rule to try and stop it.

Because the NEXT time a scout gets abused or the NEXT time a scout falls from a 6 foot tower, you better believe that the lawyers will point to the PRIOR incident as proof BSA knew it was a danger and disregarded it.

I call this the "one person poops his pants and then everybody has to wear a diaper" rule! 

[RememberSchiff]

13 minutes ago, InquisitiveScouter said:

I call this the "one person poops his pants and then everybody has to wear a diaper" rule! 

Depends ... poop happens.

[yknot]

2 minutes ago, CynicalScouter said:

Every one of those statutes provides a charity and/or 501(c)(3) exemption. Some specify the Boy Scouts by name. It isn't that BSA is oblivious, it is that it is exempt.

This is Virginia's language https://law.lis.virginia.gov/vacode/title40.1/chapter5/section40.1-112/
 

 

Some do but not all. There are also municipal laws that can preclude this as well. Additionally, at least in my state, school districts will not allow any affiliated organization, like a PTA or athletic associations, to incorporate any kind of door to door nonprofit solicitation by kids.  

[CynicalScouter]

53 minutes ago, yknot said:

There are also municipal laws that can preclude this as well.

I'm not saying you are wrong, but in every state I've lived in/worked with scouting or not-for-profits/charities they were ALL exempted at EVERY level.

I'd be really, really curious to see the state law or local ordinance that does NOT include a Boy Scout exemption a) by name b) by virtue of its not-for-profit/charity/501(c)(3) status.

Some groups may have this as a POLICY (PTAs), but that's not a state law or local ordinance.

EDIT: For example, California exempts Boy Scouts as "persons acting on behalf of a bona fide trustee of charitable assets or on behalf of a charitable organization"

EDIT 2: Washington State: Boy Scouts exempt as "Unpaid volunteer for charitable and non-profit agencies."

EDIT 3: Indiana: Boy Scouts exempt as "charity" or "charitable organization".

EDIT 4: North Carolina Boy Scouts exempt as "children engaged in fraternal, religious, charitable or educational performances, where they are under the control, directly or indirectly, of their parents and/or teachers"

Delaware: Boy Scouts exempt for "Work performed by nonpaid volunteers in a charitable or non-profit organization with the written consent of a parent or one legally standing in the place of a parent;"

 

 

Edited February 19, 2021 by CynicalScouter

[yknot]

13 minutes ago, CynicalScouter said:

I'm not saying you are wrong, but in every state I've lived in/worked with scouting or not-for-profits/charities they were ALL exempted at EVERY level.

I'd be really, really curious to see the state law or local ordinance that does NOT include a Boy Scout exemption a) by name b) by virtue of its not-for-profit/charity/501(c)(3) status.

Some groups may have this as a POLICY (PTAs), but that's not a state law or local ordinance.

EDIT: For example, California exempts Boy Scouts as "persons acting on behalf of a bona fide trustee of charitable assets or on behalf of a charitable organization"

EDIT 2: Washington State: Boy Scouts exempt as "Unpaid volunteer for charitable and non-profit agencies."

EDIT 3: Indiana: Boy Scouts exempt as "charity" or "charitable organization".

 

 

I can tell you in my town that there is an exemption for charitable but you still need to obtain a no cost license and they will not grant a license to anyone under the age of 18. That is a model ordinance in effect in multiple municipalities here.
 

[CynicalScouter]

5 minutes ago, yknot said:

I can tell you in my town that there is an exemption for charitable but you still need to obtain a no cost license and they will not grant a license to anyone under the age of 18. That is a model ordinance in effect in multiple municipalities here.
 

Never seen such an ordinance.
Point of fact, the model ordinance exempts Charitable organizations.

 

Quote

Sec. 26-3. - Exemptions from regulations.

 

The following solicitations shall not be subject to the provisions of this section:

(1) Charitable solicitations which are expected to raise less than $500.00 in total contributions.

(2) Solicitations made by and on behalf of a charitable organization which is being conducted solely by members or officers thereof voluntarily and without remuneration, among the established and bona fide membership or the normal constituency or supporters thereof.

(3) Solicitations which are in the form of collections or contributions collected at regular assemblies or services of a charitable organization.

(4) Solicitations conducted by and for the benefit of schools, churches and other religious organizations.

 

Edited February 19, 2021 by CynicalScouter

[yknot]

22 minutes ago, CynicalScouter said:

Never seen such an ordinance.
Point of fact, the model ordinance exempts Charitable organizations.

 

 

It's a big country so there's lots of things many of us have never seen, but I  assure you do exist. 

You can downvote it, but this is the trend. Around me if you try to take your kids door to door no matter how good the cause someone will call DYFS on you. Townships absolutely do not want kids going door to door. COVID is only making it more the norm for any kind of door knock activity. 

Edited February 19, 2021 by yknot

[CynicalScouter]

13 minutes ago, yknot said:

You can downvote it,

That was an honest mistake.

 

Edited February 19, 2021 by CynicalScouter

[David CO]

4 hours ago, qwazse said:

I have far too many fish to fry

I gave you an upvote for using an appropriate expression on the first Friday of Lent.

[David CO]

1 hour ago, yknot said:

You can downvote it

I'm giving up downvotes for Lent.  It's going to be rough!

[swilliams]

On 2/19/2021 at 12:26 AM, MattR said:

Maybe someone should ask the council what they mean by "family camp." I suspect it means, due to covid, families are eating and tenting on their own. So if you're going to camp then eat and tent by families. It makes sense to me. It is also not requiring an activity.

This is what we've been doing.  Carpooling is discouraged and our state doesn't want the cooking equipment shared, so it ends up being 'camp with your family in an area where there may be other families with scouts in your Troop'.   Not a fan, even though I love camping and have been to a significant number of trips pre-Covid as an adult leader, but...  if that's what it is for now, so be it.