Vax Whalloped

[qwazse]

Well, dose #2 floored me for a day so far. I was warned to be on the lookout for worse. That mRNA makes for one mean sparring partner. 

I've been explaining the process to scouts as I've gone through it. I want them to know what it's like, but we have a wide range of boys and some are more science-oriented than others. The two take-home lessons:

• Rolling out vaccines in less than two years is the equivalent of landing a man on the moon ... Titan, that is ... the one around Saturn. One day, their kids will have a math or biology assignment where they sift through the genetic codes of 8 samples of virus, find the weak link, and write out the mRNA formula needed to mount an attack.
• Yes, the needle is the least of the hassle. We're basically asking millions to endure a day or two of discomfort -- some will hazard allergic reaction -- so that millions more will stay out of the hospital and hundreds of thousands more live another day.

How are you talking to your scouts about vaccinations?

[SSScout]

Well ,Q,    same here. 

 I work part time for a retirement community and so I was in the first group.  First Pfizer three weeks ago,  I went home,  felt some lassitude the next day, took a nap, no problem.  Second Pfizer this past monday.  the next day, tuesday,  I usually wake up about 5:30am, but when I awoke, I felt like I had been chopping wood for the past three days. I was so stiff and achy I could barely stand up. After coffee and breakfast I went back to bed for about  5 more hours.  No fever, just achy stiff muscles.  The next day, wednesday,  I felt much better physically, but a little fuzzy in my thinking. No headache, just .... fuzzy.   That went away as the day wore on, went to bed early.   And today I am fine, back to my usual snow shoveling self.   

Talk to Scouts?   I talk to everyone who will listen.  Masks, handwashing, social distancing,    vaccine when available.  My family is all well, they all know and acknowledge the risks and preventions.   All are on the appointment lists and waiting....   

 

[MikeS72]

Serious arm pain the day after dose #1 of the Moderna vaccine last month.  I get dose #2 next weekend.  Keeping fingers crossed.

[TAHAWK]

Wife got Moderna 1 last week.  No worse than flue shot in October.  Seems like there is a great range of reactions.

[5thGenTexan]

Yeah, I am hesitant.  I needed Tetanus for Part C last Fall.  Got it on a Monday morning and I had a fever for the next 4 days in addition to sleeping a lot.  That was just Tdap.  I am worried this one might kill me. 

[yknot]

3 hours ago, qwazse said:

Well, dose #2 floored me for a day so far. I was warned to be on the lookout for worse. That mRNA makes for one mean sparring partner. 

I've been explaining the process to scouts as I've gone through it. I want them to know what it's like, but we have a wide range of boys and some are more science-oriented than others. The two take-home lessons:

• Rolling out vaccines in less than two years is the equivalent of landing a man on the moon ... Titan, that is ... the one around Saturn. One day, their kids will have a math or biology assignment where they sift through the genetic codes of 8 samples of virus, find the weak link, and write out the mRNA formula needed to mount an attack.
• Yes, the needle is the least of the hassle. We're basically asking millions to endure a day or two of discomfort -- some will hazard allergic reaction -- so that millions more will stay out of the hospital and hundreds of thousands more live another day.

How are you talking to your scouts about vaccinations?

- I had a couple days of an achy arm after first dose of Moderna but I've had that before from other vaccines. Not seeing it as consequential. 

- Roll out has been amazing but it's not really man on the moon. The mRNA platform has been around for awhile, it's not really that new or scary technology, and it's  already been trialed for other vaccines and applications. Cutting through all the red tape to get it to delivery has been the most revolutionary aspect. Hopefully we will do the same to adjust vaccines for emerging variants.

Glad to hear of people getting it. Stay well my friends. 

 

 

Edited February 12, 2021 by yknot

[mashmaster]

I have an appt March 23rd....  I am glad I at least have something on the calendar

[TAHAWK]

This afternoon, I was given the chance to agree within 48 hours to have Shot 1 in the murder capital of Ohio or wait until April.  i decided to have the shot.  

[scoutldr]

Mrs. Scoutldr and I both got Dose 1 of Moderna on 1 Feb.  Arm a little sore that night...no worse than a flu shot.  On Day 8, I got the "Covid Arm" reaction...redness and itching at injection site about 5 cm in diameter...lasted about 18 hrs.  My physical therapist and a niece got dose 2 of Moderna and it put them down hard for two days...said "I feel like I've been hit by a truck".  Can't wait for dose 2 on 1 March.  I was a Public Health professional for 40 years and wife is an RN...we solidly believe in vaccinations and did not hesitate.  We are 66, and I have all of the worst risk factors (weight, age, diabetes) and she is a cancer survivor.  And some of my family are COVID deniers and are living life like nothing happened, so we are really nervous being around grandkids.  DIL has been banned from several stores for refusing to wear a mask.  If I end up with COVID on a ventilator I expect to go home in a body bag.  They don't care.

[MattR]

@scoutldr, I can imagine the disappointment. Hang in there. 

[qwazse]

16 hours ago, yknot said:

... Cutting through all the red tape to get it to delivery has been the most revolutionary aspect. Hopefully we will do the same to adjust vaccines for emerging variants.
...

The bureaucratic hurdles are the greatest.

But, the truth is, although we have promising initial results from the trial participants who've been followed the longest, there's no knowledge of how long the immunity lasts. That's why the trials are ongoing and FDA approval is still a ways off.

[yknot]

30 minutes ago, qwazse said:

The bureaucratic hurdles are the greatest.

But, the truth is, although we have promising initial results from the trial participants who've been followed the longest, there's no knowledge of how long the immunity lasts. That's why the trials are ongoing and FDA approval is still a ways off.

Duration of immunity and efficacy against emerging variant strains are kind of two different things. Duration of immunity is still a factor even in very stable viruses, like rabies. Efficacy against emerging strains in more volatile viruses is obviously evolving. We don't know the answer to either question at this point, but the more we can contain the virus through any and all means, the more we can at least tamp down mutations that lead to vaccine resistant strains. I know vaccine manufacturers can reformulate the mRNA vaccines pretty quickly to target variants, but the concern is if they have to go through a similar trial cycle as the first generation vaccines, the fear is it may take a long time to get ahead of the outbreak. 

[qwazse]

10 minutes ago, yknot said:

Duration of immunity and efficacy against emerging variant strains are kind of two different things. Duration of immunity is still a factor even in very stable viruses, like rabies. Efficacy against emerging strains in more volatile viruses is obviously evolving. We don't know the answer to either question at this point, but the more we can contain the virus through any and all means, the more we can at least tamp down mutations that lead to vaccine resistant strains. I know vaccine manufacturers can reformulate the mRNA vaccines pretty quickly to target variants, but the concern is if they have to go through a similar trial cycle as the first generation vaccines, the fear is it may take a long time to get ahead of the outbreak. 

Here's the good news about efficacy against emerging variants: the textbook problem of designing the right mRNA sequence is partly based on the sections of viral DNA (or RNA, if we're talking retro-virus) that have been varying the least.  Basically, the genes that had not been varying much are likely to be the ones that the virus can't afford to change, so new variants are likely to have targets that are still identifiable by a prepared immune system. That's the textbook theory, at least. In most ways, Cov-Sars-2 is textbook; but in others, the jury is still out.

There hasn't really been any bad news about duration of immunity. It's just a matter of waiting out the trials to get an idea of how long the high level of efficiency lasts. The general thinking is that the public will be okay with an annual vaccine, especially if it's part of a flu shot. If they need something more frequently than that, we won't get the compliance we need to lower the virus reproduction number.

Meanwhile the more traditional vaccines seem to be doing a decent enough job and are easy to deliver. Here at Pitt, a patch (micro-needle array) delivery system is about to go to trial. Something with modest efficiency but no needles and no need for refrigeration could be a game changer for a lot of diseases.

[yknot]

20 minutes ago, qwazse said:

Here's the good news about efficacy against emerging variants: the textbook problem of designing the right mRNA sequence is partly based on the sections of viral DNA (or RNA, if we're talking retro-virus) that have been varying the least.  Basically, the genes that had not been varying much are likely to be the ones that the virus can't afford to change, so new variants are likely to have targets that are still identifiable by a prepared immune system. That's the textbook theory, at least. In most ways, Cov-Sars-2 is textbook; but in others, the jury is still out.

There hasn't really been any bad news about duration of immunity. It's just a matter of waiting out the trials to get an idea of how long the high level of efficiency lasts. The general thinking is that the public will be okay with an annual vaccine, especially if it's part of a flu shot. If they need something more frequently than that, we won't get the compliance we need to lower the virus reproduction number.

Meanwhile the more traditional vaccines seem to be doing a decent enough job and are easy to deliver. Here at Pitt, a patch (micro-needle array) delivery system is about to go to trial. Something with modest efficiency but no needles and no need for refrigeration could be a game changer for a lot of diseases.

Textbook is the key point. The problem is there is no real time, real world data yet on much of anything.  We're just a few months in. DOI might wind up being very good but we just don't know yet. Covid 19 is definitely not the most volatile viral agent out there, but it has been surprisingly unpredictable. We will just have to see. It is truly a novel pathogen. Regardless, I am very grateful that I was able to get my first dose. 

 

[JoeBob]

I caught the Covid from my daughter on August 1st, the first day of our 2 week vacation to Wisconsin.  She was unknowingly exposed while teaching at tennis camp.  She began to develop symptoms in the car with us during the 16 hour drive North.  I was put down within 12 hours; wife held out for 2 days, and son resisted for 4 days.  The whole family got it.  I had 2 weeks of lethargy, dry coughing and brain fog, and a 3rd week that included high fever.  Lost 27 pounds!  Of which I have been able to find 20 back...  I'm pretty cavalier about catching it again.  I hear the second time isn't as bad, and nobody knows how long the anti-bodies last.

I'll let y'all know.