Another 12 YO Eagle Scout

[qwazse]

On 2/11/2021 at 12:29 PM, yknot said:

I think this really depends on where you are. Also, the 6% is misleading because that includes cubs. ....

The 6% is a simple #Eagles in a year divided by #Scouts and Venturers<18. (Click here for gory details.) It does not include cubs, but it would include crossovers.

Our troop has gone through "boom" and "bust" stages. Some years 1/3 of the scouts earn it, other years maybe 1/30. Both of my sons' dens nearly entirely crossed over. I think over half of Son #1's den earned it, while Son #2 was the only one from his den who did.

[yknot]

1 hour ago, qwazse said:

The 6% is a simple #Eagles in a year divided by #Scouts and Venturers<18. (Click here for gory details.) It does not include cubs, but it would include crossovers.

Our troop has gone through "boom" and "bust" stages. Some years 1/3 of the scouts earn it, other years maybe 1/30. Both of my sons' dens nearly entirely crossed over. I think over half of Son #1's den earned it, while Son #2 was the only one from his den who did.

Someone once corrected me when I said most of our Troop achieves Eagle because the percentage didn't include cubs but I did not double check them.  Our base unit is pretty much an Eagle Mill (not my choice).

 

[MattR]

Every time that 6% figure is brought up it's along the lines of "only 6% of scouts earn eagle, it sure is tough." There's a big difference between 6% of scouts and 6% of scouts per year. Especially given that half of cub scouts don't become scouts.

What would be a better number would be the percentage of scout scouts that turn 18 and don't get eagle. That will tell you how fun the program is. My guess is that is much less than the number of scouts that get eagle and considerably less than the scouts that walk away without eagle and before they age out. 

[qwazse]

2 hours ago, MattR said:

Every time that 6% figure is brought up it's along the lines of "only 6% of scouts earn eagle, it sure is tough." There's a big difference between 6% of scouts and 6% of scouts per year. Especially given that half of cub scouts don't become scouts.

What would be a better number would be the percentage of scout scouts that turn 18 and don't get eagle. That will tell you how fun the program is. My guess is that is much less than the number of scouts that get eagle and considerably less than the scouts that walk away without eagle and before they age out. 

Youth who are only ever cub scouts are never in the denominator. The denominator is always only youth who have been registered in a program where they could earn Eagle.

There’s always a “better number”. My preferred calculation is the total number of scouts who ever earned Eagle, divided by the total number of youth who were Boy Scouts, Varsity Scouts, Male Venturers, or (now) Scouts BSA. I did that once a while back and came up with a figure of about 3%.

5 hours ago, yknot said:

Someone once corrected me when I said most of our Troop achieves Eagle because the percentage didn't include cubs but I did not double check them.  Our base unit is pretty much an Eagle Mill (not my choice).

 

My main knock on troops with an “Eagle or Bust” mentality is that it is a discouragement to boys who only want to be 1st Class scouts.

[mashmaster]

There is a local troop nearby that is the definition of an Eagle mill.  Every week there is more email and promotion of past Eagles "So and so what our 250th Eagle scout, it's his birthday".  "Come to our meeting tonight and earn the XYZ Merit Badge"

That troop has zero youth that know how to advocate for themselves.  They expect to get Eagle and have everything handed over.

I have the immediate distain for a Troop that starts the conversation with "we have had X Eagles last year, this year, ever."  I want to here "Our scouts love camping and going on high adventure"

[skeptic]

While we all have had our moments of "concern" about paper Eagles, and units that are the mills, we need to just concentrate on our own programs and try to assure the youth get the benefits, whether Eagle or only Tenderfoot.  Our goal has always been to try and keep the youth in the troop long enough to expose them to the best of the program if possible.  We have had a number of them stay with us all through HS and never get beyond First Class or Star.  Yet, they have fond memories and spent quality time in the outdoors.  Our struggle today, as we are edging towards the end of our centennial year, in December, is to simply get back on track and work the program.  Our history is important, but the basic tenets are what it is about, never just getting Eagle.  And we still only have 58 Eagles on our honor board.  But a high percentage of the youth stayed to maturity, and many have done well for themselves and their families.  Few have gotten into difficulties.  My experience over the 60 tears or so is that the youth know most of the time who the "real" achievers are; and it is on occasion a challenge to explain to them the premise of honor and doing their best in those circumstances.  On the other side, I have seen a couple of the really questionable Eagles grow into it, which is amazing to watch.  

 

Edited February 17, 2021 by skeptic
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[InquisitiveScouter]

24 minutes ago, mashmaster said:

There is a local troop nearby that is the definition of an Eagle mill.  Every week there is more email and promotion of past Eagles "So and so what our 250th Eagle scout, it's his birthday".  "Come to our meeting tonight and earn the XYZ Merit Badge"

That troop has zero youth that know how to advocate for themselves.  They expect to get Eagle and have everything handed over.

I have the immediate distain for a Troop that starts the conversation with "we have had X Eagles last year, this year, ever."  I want to here "Our scouts love camping and going on high adventure"

I feel your frustration, too...

Whenever we have a prospective parent ask, "How many of your Scouts earn Eagle?"  We always answer now, "As many as are willing to do the work to earn it."  That answer is well-received about 50% of the time...the other 50% usually wind up in a mill...

Edited February 17, 2021 by InquisitiveScouter

[HICO_Eagle]

On 2/11/2021 at 4:50 AM, scoutldr said:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the time intervals for T-2-1 can all run concurrently, right?  (Meaning, you can be working on the First Class Fitness, while still a Tenderfood) Back in my day, you could not start work on a rank requirements until you had been awarded the previous rank.  The "First Class First Year" push changed all that...not in a good way, in my opinion.

You must be much older than me.  We were able to work on T-2-1 requirements simultaneously in 1978.  What you COULDN'T do was earn Second Class before achieving Tenderfoot or First Class before achieving Tenderfoot.

While I keep an open mind that SOME 12 year old might be mature enough with natural leadership abilities and work hard enough to get Eagle in 2 years, it would be extremely rare and I am rather skeptical about earning 71 merit badges in 2 years.