WSJ Article "Boy Scouts’ Coed Recruiting Touched Off ‘Ground War’ With Girl Scouts"

[Eagle94-A1]

From https://www.wsj.com/articles/boy-scouts-coed-recruiting-touched-off-ground-war-with-girl-scouts-11612094400

Quote

Wall Street Journal 2/1/21-  FAIR USE ABRIDGEMENT

In May 2017, ahead of a meeting of the Boy Scouts of America’s top leaders, a Girl Scouts of the USA employee emailed a counterpart at the Boy Scouts to ask about speculation it was considering admitting girls into the historically boys-only programs.

 

In October 2017, the Boy Scouts announced they would begin accepting girls into the organization’s core programs. 

 

A century of peaceful coexistence ended, and in 2018 the Girl Scouts sued the Boy Scouts in federal court, alleging that marketing terms used by the Boy Scouts to recruit girls, such as “Scout Me In,” had trampled the Girl Scouts’ trademarks, damaged their brand and confused the public. The Girl

 

A federal judge hasn’t ruled on whether the Girl Scouts’ claims should proceed to trial.

Write to Peg Brickley at peg.brickley@wsj.com and Andrew Scurria at andrew.scurria@wsj.com

 

Edited February 7, 2021 by John-in-KC
Respecting WSJs paywall

[qwazse]

Thanks for clipping the full text of the article. It's interesting to note that the reporters do not identify external pressures, such as NOW of NYC.

[Jameson76]

1 hour ago, qwazse said:

Thanks for clipping the full text of the article. It's interesting to note that the reporters do not identify external pressures, such as NOW of NYC.

I continue to find it interesting that organizations, such as NOW, at various times called upon the BSA (as was an organization's free speech perogative) to open the membership to girls.  The press release article qwazse noted was headlined - "Boy Scouts of America Denies Equal Opportunity Access for Girls"

Yet, I am not able to find the same organizations, then or now, calling for the Girl Scouts to admit males.

Please do not perceive this observation as being against the inclusion of Girls into Cubs and Scouts, it is what it is and honestly has not effected our unit at all.  I hope the girls have great adventures and grow as youth in leadership and skills.  Just wonder why the obvious hypocrisy is not even mentioned in any way in the media.

[Eagle1993]

IF GSUSA believes scouts, scouting is confusing and BSA has tarnished scouting, they can feel free to change their name to Girl Guides. 

In general, it seems like GSUSA does a pretty good job up until 5th grade.  After that, we have heard from many girls who have seen their GSUSA Troops fold.  Those girls and families know they are signing up for a BSA program, there is no confusion.  

I wonder if GSUSA is stoking the fires of this lawsuit and they are seeing news articles all over the place of the first group of female Eagle Scouts and are terrified of its impacts on their recruiting.  

After the court decision(s) and bankruptcy, I hope BSA & GSUSA can learn to play well together.

 

[Eagle94-A1]

I wonder if the fact that BSA attempted to defend its brand in the 1920s against GSUSA will play a factor in this case?

[Eagledad]

3 hours ago, Jameson76 said:

Please do not perceive this observation as being against the inclusion of Girls into Cubs and Scouts, it is what it is and honestly has not effected our unit at all.  I hope the girls have great adventures and grow as youth in leadership and skills.  Just wonder why the obvious hypocrisy is not even mentioned in any way in the media.

Media! There are several forum members here who used harsher words to describe the BSA that need to own up to the hypocrisy. 

Barry

[CynicalScouter]

I hate to repeat, but it bears repeating:

During the introduction of girls in Scouts, BSA and Cub Scouts there were some units and councils that in fact did outright (mistakenly) say that GSUSA and BSA had merged or that this was not the new Girl Scout (note the caps here) program. Units and councils went so far as to use GSUSA logos and images and items that were CLEARLY GSUSA intellectual property. Even BSA's own research indicated that a large percentage of people when asked did NOT know that GSUSA and BSA were completely separate entities.

Every time GSUSA's lawyers reached out to BSA National's general counsel the mistake was immediately rectified.

The fact is BSA National a) fibbed and fudged to GSUSA about its intentions to bring girls in and b) a few BSA units and councils screwed up the roll out.

That doesn't mean GSUSA can or should win; it just means this is not as clear and clean as GSUSA = bad; BSA = good.

Edited February 3, 2021 by CynicalScouter

[Owls_are_cool]

Last week, I happened to catch Glenn Beck's radio program discussing the Boy Scouts. He said national institutions like the Boy Scouts are being viewed differently today. Instead of a scout helping an old lady across the street, we are now an organization that harbors sexual predators. Glenn seems to think we are done. 

I am just one scoutmaster trying to keep scouting alive for scouts in my troop, but all these lawsuits at the national level is making it impossible to grow. 

[skeptic]

This is part of the societal problem.  Most of the incidents were rectified and it has been a year or more for most of it.  Media and simply agitators keep it going with outlandish comments and misinformation.  Too bad some of the players cannot grow up, nor live by the basics of Scouting, both Girl and Boy.  

[vol_scouter]

25 minutes ago, CynicalScouter said:

I hate to repeat, but it bears repeating:

During the introduction of girls in Scouts, BSA and Cub Scouts there were some units and councils that in fact did outright (mistakenly) say that GSUSA and BSA had merged or that this was not the new Girl Scout (note the caps here) program. Units and councils went so far as to use GSUSA logos and images and items that were CLEARLY GSUSA intellectual property. Even BSA's own research indicated that a large percentage of people when asked did NOT know that GSUSA and BSA were completely separate entities.

Every time GSUSA's lawyers reached out to BSA National's general counsel the mistake was immediately rectified.

The fact is BSA National a) fibbed and fudged to GSUSA about its intentions to bring girls in and b) a few BSA units and councils screwed up the roll out.

That doesn't mean GSUSA can or should win; it just means this is not as clear and clean as GSUSA = bad; BSA = good.

The BSA was clear about the intentions and executed on that in retaining single gender programs for Cub Scouts and Scouts BSA.  That is the requirements now just as when girls were first added to each program.  The BSA was clear that the it was likely that girls would be added to the Cub Scouts and Boy Scouts (renamed to Scouts BSA) but as single gender programs.  It did not fib or try to mislead the GSUSA.  There were local problems that were corrected when national was notified.  The BSA was specific in its guidance to local councils to avoid the problems that the GSUSA have cited. 

[yknot]

Scouts handled the internal roll out the same way. Surbaugh initially told everyone it was just under consideration and any changes were a long way off and would be well thought out.  BSA sent out guided surveys that all but forced positive responses to the question of whether girls should be added to the program.. Like a week later, or at least it seemed to us, due to "overwhelmingly positive responses" from the guided surveys, it was announced as a fait accompli. It caused incredible turmoil in our council and led to people leaving because the way it was handled was so duplicitous. It was all the more shocking because it was our venerated institution that was supposed to be following scout laws.. I don't think what the GSUSA has rises to the level of a law suit but I also think BSA behaved dishonorably.  

[vol_scouter]

58 minutes ago, yknot said:

Scouts handled the internal roll out the same way. Surbaugh initially told everyone it was just under consideration and any changes were a long way off and would be well thought out.  BSA sent out guided surveys that all but forced positive responses to the question of whether girls should be added to the program.. Like a week later, or at least it seemed to us, due to "overwhelmingly positive responses" from the guided surveys, it was announced as a fait accompli. It caused incredible turmoil in our council and led to people leaving because the way it was handled was so duplicitous. It was all the more shocking because it was our venerated institution that was supposed to be following scout laws.. I don't think what the GSUSA has rises to the level of a law suit but I also think BSA behaved dishonorably.  

The thought was that the acceptance would be near 50-50 and that it would require some time before there was consensus.  The extensive surveys were consistent and overwhelmingly positive.  The local councils were responsible to determine who received the surveys.  Some sent the surveys to all volunteers while others only the Executive Committee or Executive Board while a few did not distribute them at all. However, all groups surveyed were very positive that it was a good idea.  Even the boys in the OA where very positive.  Though not the very best surveys that I have ever seen, they were valid.  Most questions were 70% to 90% in favor of adding girls.  

Sorry that there were problems in your council and some others.  The BSA was transparent in its process and the results were overwhelmingly positive.  There were also people celebrating the the change just as there were some decrying it.

If Scouting had never been invented and 'we' came up with the idea now, would you really exclude girls?  I think that an honest evaluation is that it would be coed - not single gender.

 

[yknot]

55 minutes ago, vol_scouter said:

The thought was that the acceptance would be near 50-50 and that it would require some time before there was consensus.  The extensive surveys were consistent and overwhelmingly positive.  The local councils were responsible to determine who received the surveys.  Some sent the surveys to all volunteers while others only the Executive Committee or Executive Board while a few did not distribute them at all. However, all groups surveyed were very positive that it was a good idea.  Even the boys in the OA where very positive.  Though not the very best surveys that I have ever seen, they were valid.  Most questions were 70% to 90% in favor of adding girls.  

Sorry that there were problems in your council and some others.  The BSA was transparent in its process and the results were overwhelmingly positive.  There were also people celebrating the the change just as there were some decrying it.

If Scouting had never been invented and 'we' came up with the idea now, would you really exclude girls?  I think that an honest evaluation is that it would be coed - not single gender.

 

Of course the surveys were positive. They were designed to produce those results. That's what I mean by a guided survey. The surveys were not designed to do objective research but to provide statistical coverage for a foregone conclusion. That's obvious, because the BSA is on record in the GSUSA lawsuit as having already decided it would admit girls before Surbaugh ever launched his "town meetings' tour on the question. It was a duplicitous strategy that played out in real time in a lot of councils.

As far as girls, I was initially hesitant because there are so few places for boys to be boys but on the other hand I completely understood why some girls would want to join. From the comments on this forum alone however, I think it's ridiculous to think that the acceptance rate among rank and file scouters ever approached 70%.

[Sniktaw]

"Most questions were 70% to 90% in favor of adding girls. "

 

This is true. The QUESTIONS were in favor of adding girls.  We don't bother with BSA surveys any more. They're already sure of our answers.

 

[Eagle94-A1]

2 hours ago, vol_scouter said:

The thought was that the acceptance would be near 50-50 and that it would require some time before there was consensus.  The extensive surveys were consistent and overwhelmingly positive.  The local councils were responsible to determine who received the surveys.  Some sent the surveys to all volunteers while others only the Executive Committee or Executive Board while a few did not distribute them at all. However, all groups surveyed were very positive that it was a good idea.  Even the boys in the OA where very positive.  Though not the very best surveys that I have ever seen, they were valid.  Most questions were 70% to 90% in favor of adding girls.  

Sorry that there were problems in your council and some others.  The BSA was transparent in its process and the results were overwhelmingly positive.  There were also people celebrating the the change just as there were some decrying it.

If Scouting had never been invented and 'we' came up with the idea now, would you really exclude girls?  I think that an honest evaluation is that it would be coed - not single gender.

 

If the surveys showed members were in favor of adding girls, then A) Why were the results of the MEMBERS (emphasis) survey never published, and B) Why did they exclude Western Region's LDS members , according to one note in mice type I saw at the beginning of the survey?