BSA requirements

[InquisitiveScouter]

5 hours ago, fred8033 said:

919 awarded in 2019.  I'm betting less than 200 sold nation wide.  Maybe 400 as I'm betting counselors buy them more than scouts. 

And probably thousands upon thousands printed...

Having a close friend who works in a Scout Shop, I can tell you the markup on all Scouting merchandise is high.  Some things over 100% (double what was paid to National Supply at wholesale.)

[mrjohns2]

1 hour ago, InquisitiveScouter said:

Having a close friend who works in a Scout Shop, I can tell you the markup on all Scouting merchandise is high.  Some things over 100% (double what was paid to National Supply at wholesale.)

Markup isn't the question, margin is. It doesn't matter if they have 300% markup if they are still losing money on the item. 

[InquisitiveScouter]

1 minute ago, mrjohns2 said:

Markup isn't the question, margin is. It doesn't matter if they have 300% markup if they are still losing money on the item. 

Agreed...point is, they have to mark up all the other merchandise to help cover the costs of the stuff that doesn't sell.

If they move to a smarter model of on-line publications, the cost savings could be translated into lower costs for other Scout Stuff...but you and I know that would never happen

[yknot]

1 hour ago, InquisitiveScouter said:

Agreed...point is, they have to mark up all the other merchandise to help cover the costs of the stuff that doesn't sell.

If they move to a smarter model of on-line publications, the cost savings could be translated into lower costs for other Scout Stuff...but you and I know that would never happen

It might be good if the reorganization gets scouting out of the merchandizing and printing business. 

I think there is still some value in having a paper record of sign offs for those that like that, but then it could simply be a sign off booklet and not a hefty four color handbook. 

If you didn't have to pay to print merit badge booklets, then it would make sense to keep niche interest merit badges like stamp collecting around for the small numbers of scouts who still want to do them. 

[Eagledad]

15 minutes ago, yknot said:

I think there is still some value in having a paper record of sign offs for those that like that, but then it could simply be a sign off booklet and not a hefty four color handbook. 

This is worth discussing. When I was a scouting the 70's we had 3 fold advancement cards instead of using the handbooks. I imagine that changed in the 80s because loosing cards was so easy. But, as a SM, I collected more lost books than any other item except for hats. And, since more scouts quit in their first year of a troop than any other year, that is a lot of books there that are wasted. because the advancement part is partially signed off. I would be willing to go back to advancement cards again so the handbooks could be reused. Of course that doesn't help funding.

Barry

[qwazse]

42 minutes ago, Eagledad said:

This is worth discussing. When I was a scouting the 70's we had 3 fold advancement cards instead of using the handbooks. I imagine that changed in the 80s because loosing cards was so easy. But, as a SM, I collected more lost books than any other item except for hats. And, since more scouts quit in their first year of a troop than any other year, that is a lot of books there that are wasted. because the advancement part is partially signed off. I would be willing to go back to advancement cards again so the handbooks could be reused. Of course that doesn't help funding.

Barry

So, tracking advancement is a different animal than listing each requirement for every award that a scout could earn.

Frankly, one doesn't need any pre-printed material to track advancement. Lined paper or graph paper would do. The date goes in the left margin, the scout writes the award and requirement number, and the PL signs in the right margin. If all that matters is lists of req #s and PL's signatures, it could literally be as small as a membership card for each rank. The scout comes to the SM and says "Sir, I've worked my ticket for ___ rank and am ready for my conference and BoR."

Those Scout and Tenderfoot tickets will look gnarly, but as scouts mature, we'll see their upper-rank tickets look sharp. As I've mentioned in other threads, the killer app would be the tech that could photograph the card to a cloud drive, scan the writing, and register requirement completion.

The other "universal scout tool" that I've mentioned before, is a standard-issue notebook designed for working MB's. This would replace those MB worksheets. The scout records the MB at the top of the page, lists the requirement in the margin, and makes notes relevant to the requirement in the body.

The real value is that library of specialty MB pamphlets. Fewer troops means fewer libraries and less demand. The contents are swell, but it if they were exclusively online, it would be a hassle for end-users to print and bind the 23-136 pamphlets they'd use in their career. The issue of oversupply is an indication that BSA needs to move to print-on-demand and direct mailing. This would also enable every scout-shop and trading post to resupply with exactly the inventory that they needed.

[InquisitiveScouter]

37 minutes ago, qwazse said:

So, tracking advancement is a different animal than listing each requirement for every award that a scout could earn.

Frankly, one doesn't need any pre-printed material to track advancement. Lined paper or graph paper would do. The date goes in the left margin, the scout writes the award and requirement number, and the PL signs in the right margin. If all that matters is lists of req #s and PL's signatures, it could literally be as small as a membership card for each rank. The scout comes to the SM and says "Sir, I've worked my ticket for ___ rank and am ready for my conference and BoR."

Those Scout and Tenderfoot tickets will look gnarly, but as scouts mature, we'll see their upper-rank tickets look sharp. As I've mentioned in other threads, the killer app would be the tech that could photograph the card to a cloud drive, scan the writing, and register requirement completion.

The other "universal scout tool" that I've mentioned before, is a standard-issue notebook designed for working MB's. This would replace those MB worksheets. The scout records the MB at the top of the page, lists the requirement in the margin, and makes notes relevant to the requirement in the body.

The real value is that library of specialty MB pamphlets. Fewer troops means fewer libraries and less demand. The contents are swell, but it if they were exclusively online, it would be a hassle for end-users to print and bind the 23-136 pamphlets they'd use in their career. The issue of oversupply is an indication that BSA needs to move to print-on-demand and direct mailing. This would also enable every scout-shop and trading post to resupply with exactly the inventory that they needed.

Darn it, @qwazse, didn't we tell you to stop peddling your pesky common sense around here...sheesh!!

[Eagledad]

1 hour ago, qwazse said:

Frankly, one doesn't need any pre-printed material to track advancement. Lined paper or graph paper would do. The date goes in the left margin, the scout writes the award and requirement number, and the PL signs in the right margin. If all that matters is lists of req #s and PL's signatures, it could literally be as small as a membership card for each rank. The scout comes to the SM and says "Sir, I've worked my ticket for ___ rank and am ready for my conference and BoR."

True, this is one method. Hmm, have you ever worked with boys? I see the detail orientated style of girls eating this up, but not the big picture boys.

I think we just found a place where your extremism is more extreme than mine. But, I don't think you were a SM. The simplicity of your suggestion triples the resources for a scout to track his advancement. True, once he learns the management style, he will take that life skill with him. But, the chaos of scouts loosing track will force a lot of new procedures and adult interventions. If scouts can't keep track of their books, a few notes on used envelopes will really push the struggle. .I'm not saying don't try it, I'm just saying not me.

Barry

[qwazse]

1 hour ago, Eagledad said:

True, this is one method. Hmm, have you ever worked with boys? I see the detail orientated style of girls eating this up, but not the big picture boys.

I think we just found a place where your extremism is more extreme than mine. But, I don't think you were a SM. The simplicity of your suggestion triples the resources for a scout to track his advancement. True, once he learns the management style, he will take that life skill with him. But, the chaos of scouts loosing track will force a lot of new procedures and adult interventions. If scouts can't keep track of their books, a few notes on used envelopes will really push the struggle. .I'm not saying don't try it, I'm just saying not me.

Barry

I've worked with boys and girls and their tracking of things is indeed a high order of chaos.

I'm not saying that the "blank ticket" approach is the way to go. I'm just using it to point out that there is a lot of non-essential print in BSA's supply chain. And much of that exists to make adults' life easier, but actually has ensnared adults in a vicious cycle of increased bean-counting. Compare how many adults in an average troop are involved in tracking a scouts' advancement today vs. how many when we were kids.

But, given printed media, what has BSA done over the years, especially recent decades? It has used the power of print to pack more words on a page and create an increasingly convoluted series of checklist requirements. We've uncorked a Pandora's box. If the underlying principle is, according to congressional charter "to teach boys to do things for themselves", then the ticket approach is one way to push back against the piling on supposed "skills".

Besides, there are a lot of unused envelopes out there!