Boys' Life is now Scout Life

[CynicalScouter]

[mashmaster]

I am ok with this change.

[ParkMan]

Thanks.  This looks like a good decision by the BSA.

[The Latin Scot]

I have struggled all evening over whether or not to post this, but my heart tells me I must, and so, having learned never to doubt my heart when it speaks so clearly, here are my thoughts.

I actually and truly believe this is one of the saddest changes and toughest blows yet to this generation of young boys who are struggling to grow up in today's increasingly identity-challenged society. The entire purpose of the magazine's creation was to give boys - future men - a monthly collection of stories, articles, selections and even advertisements tailored specifically to the interests of boys and young men, and built around forming a healthy, and (yes I shall dare use the terms) manly and masculine character. But now these values and interests and ideals are forcibly being taken from them in the increasingly fearsome war of absolute equality where nobody is allowed to be different, no, not even our boys from our girls. In this appallingly misguided worldview (which has the worst airs of totalitarian socialism written all over it), if boys like something, then girls must like it too, and so they naturally cannot be allowed something as exclusive and chauvinist as their own magazine - why, that would be an injustice to millions of girls all over America! Boys must have nothing of their own, or it promote inequality they say! And so, a paragon of wholesome literature geared towards nurturing the identities of our nation's boys is now diluted and cheapened as Boy's Life, once an American institution, becomes "Scout Life," another victim in an increasingly perilous trend towards imposing utter and senseless sameness on a generation of youth that will now have to struggle not only with the usual difficulties of their daily choices, but also with their very identities as now essential and integral elements of who they are - even the most absolute parts their being, like being a boy or a girl - are twisted by society to appear optional, or even, as some use the term now, fluid, a deadly term I have increasingly come to despise in this context. Boys and girls are, and have always been meant to be, different, biologically, cognitively, and spiritually; and by shoving them against each other in an attempt to make them appear either the same or interchangeable, we only end up wounding an entire generation of children now growing up without so much as the most basic understanding of what gender means - nor to which gender they belong.

This change does not help our youth. It perpetuates a growing movement to harm and demoralize them, and I am sorry that of all institutions, The Boy Scouts of America has now become even more complicit with it. But then, I am sure those behind this agenda have long sought in desperation to win over the BSA. After all, if they can bring down even this once-venerable institution, who can't they win over to their cause? 

Well, not me. I find this development to be one of the saddest examples of the BSA caving to shifting moral trends in the past few years, as it is also one of the most public, soon to be broadcast on social media and exhibited on magazine stands and in libraries all over the country. The pitiful tagline "From the publisher of Boy's Life Since 1911" rings especially hollow for me. Certainly, it's another indicator that my time with this organization will not be as long as I had wished even a few years ago. I haven't yet been pushed over the edge, but I suddenly feel like that may come soon. I have built my entire career around understanding, supporting, advocating for and standing by our nation's young people. In my eyes, this apparently simple change has just robbed millions of boys of something they desperately needed while offering girls nothing they didn't already have already. An organization that is willing to do this to the millions of young people it is supposed to serve and protect has a deep need of immediate self-reflection and re-assessment, and if I don't see a greater attempt by this organization to support the young men of this nation by preserving for them something that t hey can call their own to preserve and support their identities as the future men of this nation, I will not be able to support it with my time and services much longer.

A pity, because there is nothing that can build up the character and abilities of a young man like Scouting. I hope to Heaven the BSA will perhaps make one more attempt to try using it again, before it is too late.

And to those who will inevitably essay to pick apart my thoughts with the tired and typical counter-arguments, like trying to make me say which qualities boys have that girls can't have, or how boys are being harmed by this new equality, or what harm can possibly come by sharing all these wonderful things with all our youth, boys or girls, or the thousand et ceteras you have been trained to toss into the ring, know that I have no intention of turning this thread into a proving ground of opinions or theses, and that I am merely expressing my dismay at this latest development. I could answer every one of those questions in great detail (indeed, in my career, that's a large part of what I do to help our youth and their parents navigate these essential and important questions) - yet I hardly suppose I shall even read this thread again, now that I have made my thoughts known, and that's besides the point:

This thread is a notice that Boy's Life is now Scout Life.

And this post is my opinion on the matter.

I would imagine that the Original Poster would prefer to know what you feel about the topic - not what you feel about my opinion of it. And knowing that our good moderators have a tough job ensuring that these threads remain civil and polite at all times, I will support them in recommending that we bear this in mind, and by keeping myself from the inevitable urge to get involved in what may surely be a heated topic and source of debate, important though it may be. My feeling are indeed strong, and I apologize in advance if they generate any uncomfortable to unpopular responses. But I feel it is both permissible and fair for me to at least express them here, where I find it important. There is at least one point of the Scout Law that has seared itself into my character over the years, it was remembering this simple truth that gave me the courage to post these thoughts here now:

"A Scout is Brave. A Scout can face danger although he is afraid. He has the courage to stand for what he thinks is right even if others laugh at him or threaten him."

Or , in my case, even if they fiercely disagree with his opinions online.

[mrjohns2]

8 hours ago, The Latin Scot said:

Well, not me. I find this development to be one of the saddest examples of the BSA caving to shifting moral trends in the past few years, as it is also one of the most public, soon to be broadcast on social media and exhibited on magazine stands and in libraries all over the country. 

It really is one of the last moves to incorporate girls vs. one to cave in additionally. One wouldn't expect an organization to accept girls, but at the same time have a magazine that is titled for half? 

[ParkMan]

11 hours ago, The Latin Scot said:

I have struggled all evening over whether or not to post this, but my heart tells me I must, and so, having learned never to doubt my heart when it speaks so clearly, here are my thoughts.

Thank you very much for sharing your thoughts and feelings on the subject.

I would simply offer that while there is a truth in much of what you write, this day had to come.  There was no way that the BSA would ever be able to indefinitely continue to have a magazine called "Boys Life" in a true co-ed program.

Youth today benefit from Scouting.  Youth participating in Scouting need outstanding adult leaders to help them benefit from the program.  We can all mourn what once was - but it doesn't help the youth of today to benefit from Scouting.  I would hazard a guess that there is more you like about Scouting than there is that you dislike about Scouting.  I would encourage you to fInd those things in the program that you enjoy and the youth enjoy and focus on it and help develop it. 

[Wëlënakwsu]

Separate magazines for boy Dens and Troops and girl Dens and Troop, might be preferable, but alas…  it’s likely the economics of print magazines make it prohibitive. All periodicals are having a tough time and many reducing issue frequency or ceasing print publication.  Recent example is Scouting which is no printed. 

Does anyone know if Boys’ Life was self supporting with subscriptions and ads?  If not and it’s ‘subsidized’ by the BSA… I’m glad it’s not on the Chapter 11 ‘chopping block’!

Side note…  Boys’ Life circulation was about 455,000 for the Cub edition and 360,000 for the Scout (12-17 age) edition.  That’s about 39% - 45% of Cub and Scout membership.

[mrjohns2]

5 minutes ago, Wëlënakwsu said:

Does anyone know if Boys’ Life was self supporting with subscriptions and ads?  If not and it’s ‘subsidized’ by the BSA… I’m glad it’s not on the Chapter 11 ‘chopping block’!

That is a great question. I don't know if many/most of the bankruptcy choices have flowed to the origination yet. I have assumed that all of the current cuts are just due to budget issues, but I have no knowledge. 

It would have been neat to have a Girls' Life, Boys' Life, Cub, and Scout editions. But, like you said, with the circulation numbers, it would be hard. 

[CynicalScouter]

44 minutes ago, Wëlënakwsu said:

Separate magazines for boy Dens and Troops and girl Dens and Troop, might be preferable, but alas…  it’s likely the economics of print magazines make it prohibitive.

Part of the reason they were NOT allowed to even use the phrase "Scout Life" was due to the lawsuit that GSA filed.

Creating a separate publication for girls the used the word "Scout" is asking for additional litigation.

https://www.courthousenews.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/11/Scouts.pdf

Edited December 26, 2020 by CynicalScouter

[mrjohns2]

4 minutes ago, CynicalScouter said:

Part of the reason they were NOT allowed to even use the phrase "Scout Life" was due to the lawsuit that GSA filed.

Does this mean they have made progress with the lawsuit with GSUSA or does it mean they are moving forward without resolution? 

[yknot]

 

45 minutes ago, Wëlënakwsu said:

Separate magazines for boy Dens and Troops and girl Dens and Troop, might be preferable, but alas…  it’s likely the economics of print magazines make it prohibitive. All periodicals are having a tough time and many reducing issue frequency or ceasing print publication.  Recent example is Scouting which is no printed. 

Does anyone know if Boys’ Life was self supporting with subscriptions and ads?  If not and it’s ‘subsidized’ by the BSA… I’m glad it’s not on the Chapter 11 ‘chopping block’!

Having been in publications management and having had many of my publications and competitor publications close, I can say it is mostly likely not self supporting through subscriptions and advertisements. Most of the product review articles are likely paid placements -- meaning the product manufacturer probably pays something for having the product reviewed and included in the article. Or, conversely, they review the product and then solicit an ad and if none is forthcoming likely drop the product out. The magazine is probably considered a marketing and recruitment vehicle and is probably subsidized out of those budgets. 

I think Scout Life is a great choice. Many older teenagers would not be caught dead reading a publication titled for  "Boys" Once my kids hit Webelos they wouldn't pick it up.  

[TAHAWK]

BSA has, of course, used the title Scouting for its magazine for adults in Scouting - Scouts, Cubs, Explorers (co-ed for decades), Sea Scouts (co-ed for years) - for generations.  THus, BSA has used "Scouting"" in connection withmagazine for a co-ed program without objection by GSA for many years, precluding a valid claim of  intellectual property inflincement.  

[CynicalScouter]

14 minutes ago, TAHAWK said:

BSA has, of course, used the title Scouting for its magazine for adults in Scouting - Scouts, Cubs, Explorers (co-ed for decades), Sea Scouts (co-ed for years) - for generations.  THus, BSA has used "Scouting"" in connection withmagazine for a co-ed program without objection by GSA for many years, precluding a valid claim of  intellectual property inflincement.  

Not exactly. This is GSA's (basic) claim: that BSA was fine to use "Scouting" so long as it maintained the distinction it was BOY Scouting. When it became simply "Scouting" or "Scouts, BSA" that infringed GSA's rights.

 

Quote

BSA does not have the right under either federal or New York law to use terms like SCOUTS or SCOUTING by themselves in connection with services offered to girls, or to rebrand itself as “the Scouts” and thereby falsely communicate to the American public that it is now the organization exclusively associated with leadership development services offered under that mark to girls. Such misconduct will not only cause confusion among the public, damage the goodwill of GSUSA’s GIRL SCOUTS trademarks, and erode its core brand identity, but it will also marginalize the GIRL SCOUTS Movement by causing the public to believe that GSUSA’s extraordinarily successful services are not true or official “Scouting” programs, but nicheservices with limited utility and appeal.

...

Only GSUSA has the right to use the GIRL SCOUTS and SCOUTS trademarks with leadership development services for girls. To the extent BSA wishes to open its programs to girls, it cannot do so using GSUSA’s intellectual property without authorization, in a manner that causes confusion among the public and harms the goodwill of the GIRL SCOUTS trademarks. It is therefore imperative that this Court take action to prevent the ongoing acts of trademark infringement, unfair competition and dilution perpetrated by BSA, both directly and vicariously through its regional and local councils, in order to prevent further damage to GSUSA’s trademarks and preserve their goodwill.

...

Defendant and GSUSA have coexisted in the marketplace for many decades, with each offering youth development services and programs, under the “SCOUT,” “SCOUTS” and “SCOUTING” trademarks. Crucially, and until recently, these terms when used have either been preceded by words like BOY or GIRL that have highlighted the gender-specific nature of each organization’s programs, or appeared in a context making clear that the programs at issue were developed by one organization or the other.

Moreover, as late as 2004, BSA admitted in court that yes, in the context of GIRLS "Scout" and "Scouting" belonged to GSA. When they allowed girls in, that broke the deal. And the Patent and Trademark Office had already warned BSA not to do it as far back as 1982.

Quote

 

Specifically, in 2004, BSA admitted in a filing made in a trademark opposition proceeding, No. 91157313, that GSUSA owned exclusive, congressionally granted rights to SCOUTS and SCOUTING with respect to youth development programs for girls. It further stated that, “the Boy Scouts controls use of the marks [SCOUT and SCOUTING] in connection with development programs for boys, while Girl Scouts controls use of the marks in connection with development programs for girls. Their joint use of the marks has been expressly recognized by Congress.”

...

When examining Defendant’s SCOUTING trademark, the PTO requested that BSA limit the scope of goods covered by that mark to magazines offering instructional advice specific to boys, “since a similar Federally distributed magazine sponsored for girls and young women also uses the term ‘Scout’ and ‘Scouting’ in referring to organizational activities and members of its organization.” See PTO Office Action issued on June 15, 1982, in connection with Application Serial No. 282546, a true and accurate copy of which is attached as Exhibit C. Plainly, the other “organization” in question is GSUSA.

 

 

Edited December 26, 2020 by CynicalScouter

[CynicalScouter]

1 hour ago, mrjohns2 said:

Does this mean they have made progress with the lawsuit with GSUSA or does it mean they are moving forward without resolution? 

No. The lawsuit continues. November 24, BSA filed for Summary Judgment in their favor. And GSA opposed.

MOST of the last year has been a big giant pause (since the bankruptcy). What activity has happened has focused on a series of documents BSA developed in the process of going to allowing girls into Cub Scouts and what became Scouts, BSA. In short, GSA is claiming this is smoking gun stuff and that Boy Scouts of America knew darn well it was causing confusion in terms of what it was doing and thereby infringing GSA's rights. GSA wants those documents to be public. BSA is asserting certain right, but in short a) the documents should not be released to GSA and b) if they are, because they contain proprietary business info they should be filed under seal and NOT open to the public.

https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/8140964/girl-scouts-of-the-united-states-of-america-v-boy-scouts-of-america/

Edited December 27, 2020 by CynicalScouter

[mrjohns2]

2 hours ago, CynicalScouter said:

What activity has happened has focused on a series of documents BSA developed in the process of going to allowing girls into Cub Scouts and what became Scouts, BSA.

Thank you so much for sharing. Any idea on how much longer this can go on? Is following this filings the best way to stay up to date?