DRAFT: DE&I merit badge requirements

[fred8033]

4 hours ago, mashmaster said:

... they happen to be very Anti-Trump, very pro-inclusion.

It's easy to be anti-trump.  I'd say the guy is a putz, but that would be too generous.    America is pro-inclusion from the heart of the Constitution.  

 

4 hours ago, mashmaster said:

People need to stop being so sensitive and listen to all sides.  That is what we teach out youth to do, we can learn from them.

Absolutely agreed that we need to listen to all sides. 

My experience though is that these are such heated discussions that we can't openly discuss without breaking relationships.  Isn't it the old adage to never discuss religion or politics at the dinner table?   But we think it's the safe place in scouting to do that?   Reverse discrimination.  Identity politics.  Failure of the drug war.  Breakdown of the nuclear family.  Failure of progressive policies --> example federally backed college loans have exploded the cost of college and created a new expectation that to earn a liveable wage you have to have a college degree.  

[fred8033]

4 minutes ago, CynicalScouter said:

you will need to be "vetted" ...  But DE&I? We all know what it is code for: you must prove you are a social justice warrior before you can be a MBC for this or at least mouth the right words/take the right course.

So, thru work I've taken 30 years worth of annual training on non-discrimination.  As part of interviewing and hiring, I've had to take additional training.  Can I use all that 30 years worth of training and experience to be vetted?  Or is it something more.  

... sounds like vetting will be a form of discrimnation.  

[CynicalScouter]

1 minute ago, fred8033 said:

So, thru work I've taken 30 years worth of annual training on non-discrimination.  As part of interviewing and hiring, I've had to take additional training.  Can I use all that 30 years worth of training and experience to be vetted?  Or is it something more.  

... sounds like vetting will be a form of discrimnation.  

It will be real interesting how this "vetting" is going to be enforced. It is so hard to get MBCs anyway (YPT and now many councils like mine require they be position trained) I suspect some "vetting" will be lacksidasial at best.

At least with SCUBA, shotgun, and the like there was a clear certifying body (or bodies in SCUBA?) with a certication program. I suspect there will be a Scouting U. DE&I video shortly that DE&I MBCS will have to take and pass.

[fred8033]

2 hours ago, qwazse said:

@Owls_are_cool (and anyone in his position), as a general rule, if your son wants to take a break from scouting or leave it altogether ... let him. Don’t let current events be a tipping point one way or another.

Regarding requiring this badge for Eagle. Nobody has to earn Eagle. No SM has to encourage a scout to earn it. I recommend that you take this as an opportunity to use advancement for something different: fun. Enjoy the hiking and camping and service projects and get scouts to Life rank. The few who want to be Eagle Scouts will find their way.

Agreed.  Eagle is just not that important.  Our scouts benefit from hiking, camping, service projects, etc.  As much as I've helped a huge number of scouts earn Eagle, ... it's just not that important.

I've wanted my sons to get Eagle not because it's a huge achievement or they will grow from it that much.  I've wanted them to earn it because then they are stuck for the rest of their lives living up to that image of an Eagle scout.

[Eagledad]

8 minutes ago, fred8033 said:

I also wonder about why not Disabilities Awareness being a required MB.  Each and every scout will encounter multiple scouts with ADHD, etc, mental and physical disorders.  Why is Disabilities Awareness not a required MB ?

Our troop became the DE's favorite troop for disabled boys. Our first Eagle was deaf.

The reputation was actually a worry for me because we are true boy run patrol method troop. Some disabilities require more assistance than a typical patrol can handle and parents had to make tough decisions. I will never forget telling the father of one scout that we were unable to keep his severely mentally retarded son safe in our troop. He had wandered off into the woods in the middle of a cold rainy night without any clothes and if not for an alert older scout, he could have been really hurt. 

On the other hand, I have many stories of patrols accepting different scout own even when some of those scouts went out of their way to resist their acceptance. 

There were NO lectures of how they as scouts are obligated to accept every difference from every scout. There was no reward for being Trustworthy, loyal, helpful to the disabled or different scouts because they were exceptionally different. Why would there be? Scouts are supposed behave that way with everyone.

The patrols figured out how to get around the challenges because they had to work together as a team at every meeting, campout  and patrol activity. Either work it out, or fail as member of the team. It's that simple.

That is why I struggle with minds determined to color the program as something less when in reality very few other youth programs can live up to the BSA minimum program standard. 

I don't mind badges where scouts can choose to learn more about the subject. But making any a badge a requirement suggest the basic program is lacking and needs a boost when it does not. Such requirements are forced by those being self-serving bureaucrats looking to showoff their self-righteousness

Barry. 

[CynicalScouter]

4 minutes ago, Eagledad said:

But making any a badge a requirement suggest the basic program is lacking and needs a boost when it does not

But the idea is that this is not a requirement; it is only a requirement if you want to make Eagle.

I'll also ask this: does the Eagle-required Camping or Cooking merit badges mean the "basic program" is lacking and needs a boost in those areas?

[fred8033]

1 minute ago, CynicalScouter said:

But the idea is that this is not a requirement; it is only a requirement if you want to make Eagle.

I'll also ask this: does the Eagle-required Camping or Cooking merit badges mean the "basic program" is lacking and needs a boost in those areas?

Not a activity or basic learning.  Camping and cooking are explicit core activities our scouts do continually.  Exposing political views is not an activity or part of the core program. 

Further, D,E&I focuses on teaching views.  Should we make the Scout Oath and Law a merit badge?

[CynicalScouter]

Just now, fred8033 said:

 Exposing political views is not an activity or part of the core program. 

If you listen to the BSA Office hours in November, they made a point and took pride that they kept the "politics" out of this merit badge. Surely, that must be true!

/sarcasm

[fred8033]

Proably best for me to back out of this discussion.  My views and frustrations with this badge are well known.  

I just don't want to promote the badge.  I agreed to get my sons into scouting to learn camping, outdoor activities and some amount of self-reliance.   Glad it was a chance to build friendships.  I was 100% ok with the citizenship and patriotism.  Religious parts were fine and I'm glad they were there, but it was not a driving part. 

This badge crosses the line into politics.  It's not for me or my time.

Edited December 30, 2020 by fred8033

[Eagledad]

21 minutes ago, CynicalScouter said:

But the idea is that this is not a requirement; it is only a requirement if you want to make Eagle.

I'll also ask this: does the Eagle-required Camping or Cooking merit badges mean the "basic program" is lacking and needs a boost in those areas?

I've always struggled with Eagle requirements that involve normal scouting skills. Let's stop the bleeding and stop.

Merit badges were originally added to the program to give scouts a taste of other interest outside scouting, possibly a career. Should camping and cooking really be a requirement for what every scout does on every campout?

The Eagle should represent scouts who display above average decisions of moral and ethical character. Order of the Arrow once required those traits from their candidates,. Which is why Arrowmen were held in such high respect. Arrowmen weren't honored for their badges, rank or stature, they were honored for their everyday honorable actions..

In general terms, we shouldn't be adding the requirements of the average scout's experience. In the case of this badge, we shouldn't be adding requirements to the BSA basic program principals. It's hypocritical at best. It mis-represents the structure of the program at worst.

Barry

[CynicalScouter]

17 minutes ago, Eagledad said:

Merit badges were originally added to the program to give scouts a taste of other interest outside scouting, possibly a career. Should camping and cooking really be a requirement for what every scout does on every campout?

Camping was Eagle required since 1915.

Cooking has been on again off again. (1915-1972/ back in 2014)

http://usscouts.org/eagle/EagleHistory.asp

 

Edited December 30, 2020 by CynicalScouter

[Eagledad]

7 minutes ago, CynicalScouter said:

Camping was Eagle required since 1915.

http://usscouts.org/eagle/EagleHistory.asp

 

Ah, thanks. 

Still, I've never held much respect for it as an Eagle requirement. How many meals will a scout plan, cook and eat in their scouting career of an Eagle? At least a few of the additional skills in the Swimming MB are somewhat advanced. 

To require a badge that the subject is already the foundation of the Scouting program suggest doubt on the program. This is the same principle reason the GSUSA has lost respect for much of it's program structure in the last 40 years. They have basically said our girls are better leaders because we tell them they are better leaders. They rely on words as the behavioral teachers of their program. First of all, humans don't learn that way. 2nd, that puts a lot of responsibility on the integrity of the individual leaders. BSA use to tell their leaders to just do the program, the scouts experience will do the rest.

Barry

[fred8033]

9 minutes ago, Eagledad said:

To require a badge that the subject is already the foundation of the Scouting program suggest doubt on the program.

I do agree with Barry on this. 

• I'd like to see at minimum half the MBs for rank be electives.  Let the scout explore and choose their path.  Isn't that a key part of scouting?
• Further, I've never liked the huge overlap between MBs and rank.  This is true with cooking, physical fitness, camping, first aid, communication.  I'd rather see "rank" be about the core of being a scout.  MBs be about the scout choosing to explore the world.  "REQUIRING" MBs seems like a contradiction.  Maybe some required as they don't fit in "RANK", but let's reduce the huge overlap.

Just to repeat my long-standing requirements protest.  Let's re-write requirements to be worded for scouts, not lawyers.  Since I've joined, the number of words have doubled and become so contractual that scouts are not reading the requirements themselves.  Re-write the words for the scouts.  Add an interpretation guide for the adults.  We already have a platform in the annually published BSA MB requirements booklet.  

Edited December 30, 2020 by fred8033

[PACAN]

Remember although the MB is required if a scout wants to earn Eagle, there are supposedly going to be rank  DEI requirements as well so it ripple through the entire advancement program.

Edited December 31, 2020 by PACAN
DEI

[CynicalScouter]

2 minutes ago, PACAN said:

there are supposedly going to be rank  DEI requirements as well so it ripple through the entire advancement program.

Yeah, that will be very interesting.