InquisitiveScouter Posted December 30, 2020 Share Posted December 30, 2020 No flaming or down votes. Most of us feel a level of frustration with this. I hope it isn't as ominous as it seems to be from this stop-start rollout. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CynicalScouter Posted December 30, 2020 Author Share Posted December 30, 2020 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Navybone said: maybe because some leaders intend to pencil whip (aka fake) the merit badge and disregard what BSA is trying to do. I have made it clear to my district advancement chair: especially given that this is going to address sexual conduct (sexual orientation and gender identity) I want parents written consent prior to each session or a parental opt-out. I've been told that is OK for my district: parents will be given an opt out. Based on that I agreed to be a MBC for this. I can assure you I will not "pencil whip" scouts. I will, however, acknowledge and respect parental rights to educate their children in the area of sexual mores and conduct UNLESS GIVEN WRITTEN CONSENT. Edited December 30, 2020 by CynicalScouter 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Navybone Posted December 30, 2020 Share Posted December 30, 2020 1 minute ago, InquisitiveScouter said: No flaming or down votes. Most of us feel a level of frustration with this. I hope it isn't as ominous as it seems to be from this stop-start rollout. i watched the video, did it seem ominous? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CynicalScouter Posted December 30, 2020 Author Share Posted December 30, 2020 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Navybone said: i watched the video, did it seem ominous? The leaked/draft absolutely made clear: BSA will impose its view of sexual morals and "inclusion", parents and churches be darned. As I said: the Catholic units are going to have to explain why they belong to a "sexist" organization that does not allow for female ordination and same sex marriage. Or they can do what I suspect a LOT of units will do: check a box and send the scout on their way. Edited December 30, 2020 by CynicalScouter 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fred8033 Posted December 30, 2020 Share Posted December 30, 2020 (edited) 18 minutes ago, Navybone said: maybe because some leaders intend to pencil whip (aka fake) the merit badge and disregard what BSA is trying to do. Maybe not pencil whip, but they will add their views, opinions and twists on it. If I look at the mix of scout leaders that I know, they help all and are very equal minded people. BUT, they are old-fashioned and take more direct action. The more I think about this, perhaps BSA and I are headed in different directions. I'm 100% supportive of teaching scouts by example; using Scout Oath and Law as fundamental principles. Scouts learn a huge amount by having to sleep in a tent they setup and having to cook and clean their own meals. Outside activities are a great teaching mechanism. I'm 100% supportive of helping all and treating each other equally. But, I don't think focusing on labels and words we've never used before is a good mechanism or something I want to promote. Maybe I'm just sensitive to this. I just experienced nine months of people calling all cops bastards and accusing the right of violence when the left was violent, censoring and intimidating. Edited December 30, 2020 by fred8033 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post HICO_Eagle Posted December 30, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted December 30, 2020 On 12/26/2020 at 3:57 PM, qwazse said: I was not involved in scouting when Family Life rolled out. I wonder if anybody who was can recall boots-on-the-ground opinions of it. As I recall, the consensus of the longtime Scouters I knew was that it was a MB that didn't do any harm, might help some Scouts, but that it was ridiculous for it to be Eagle-required. This DI&E MB is Maoist or Stalinist indoctrination IMO -- utterly ridiculous. Citizenship in the Community could have had a few requirements added to address an expanded view of "community" but creating a whole new MB -- much less making it Eagle-required -- is more social justice nonsense from the folks in Irving that have been destroying Scouting from within for the last decade or two. 2 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RememberSchiff Posted December 30, 2020 Share Posted December 30, 2020 9 hours ago, InquisitiveScouter said: No flaming or down votes. Most of us feel a level of frustration with this. I hope it isn't as ominous as it seems to be from this stop-start rollout. It does seem futile, perhaps we could write National Executive Board members about this matter as well as a performance review of our CEO (his one year anniversary is Jan 2). Maybe the former matter can be moved to a Churchill committee for further study? I'm not sure who all are the 70+ members of NEB, but I just read of a new member, Derek Porter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagledad Posted December 30, 2020 Share Posted December 30, 2020 11 hours ago, Navybone said: maybe because some leaders intend to pencil whip (aka fake) the merit badge and disregard what BSA is trying to do. My life observation of these things is those with a strong personal opinion for controversial changes are the ones likely to pencil whip (aka process without meaningful results) to insure the ideal is forced in the system (program).. Barry 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mashmaster Posted December 30, 2020 Share Posted December 30, 2020 11 hours ago, fred8033 said: Maybe I'm just sensitive to this. I just experienced nine months of people calling all cops bastards and accusing the right of violence when the left was violent, censoring and intimidating. We need to review the requirements and learn from each other the best way to run the Merit Badge instruction for it. I don't see anything inherently wrong with the merit badge. All youth should feel that scouting is a safe place for them. I have had a scout persecuted by adult leaders in a prior unit because of his orientation. That was backed by their Church COR and they attempted to defend it when they were called out for this anti-scouting behavior. Inclusion of youth is a good thing, IMHO. It is also a good thing to get rid of systematic racism and razing awareness of the existence of it. Sadly, police departments have a long history of this and can be made better. I have plenty of friends that are police and they agree that there are good changes that still need to be made. I am tired of the old story of "Left vs Right". I am in the middle and can see both sides. The Right is not necessarily racist and violent, The Left is not necessarily violent and anti-patriot. The most "Left" wing people I know actually graduated from West Point and served for many years in Iraq and Afghanistan. They are certainly not anti-police or military, but they happen to be very Anti-Trump, very pro-inclusion. People need to stop being so sensitive and listen to all sides. That is what we teach out youth to do, we can learn from them. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagledad Posted December 30, 2020 Share Posted December 30, 2020 2 minutes ago, mashmaster said: We need to review the requirements and learn from each other the best way to run the Merit Badge instruction for it. I don't see anything inherently wrong with the merit badge. All youth should feel that scouting is a safe place for them. I have had a scout persecuted by adult leaders in a prior unit because of his orientation. That was backed by their Church COR and they attempted to defend it when they were called out for this anti-scouting behavior. Inclusion of youth is a good thing, IMHO. It is also a good thing to get rid of systematic racism and razing awareness of the existence of it. Sadly, police departments have a long history of this and can be made better. I have plenty of friends that are police and they agree that there are good changes that still need to be made. I am tired of the old story of "Left vs Right". I am in the middle and can see both sides. The Right is not necessarily racist and violent, The Left is not necessarily violent and anti-patriot. The most "Left" wing people I know actually graduated from West Point and served for many years in Iraq and Afghanistan. They are certainly not anti-police or military, but they happen to be very Anti-Trump, very pro-inclusion. People need to stop being so sensitive and listen to all sides. That is what we teach out youth to do, we can learn from them. The problem is the appearance of indoctrination, not education. At the very least the MB has a lecturing knee-jerk feel to it. By the nature of the program's core values, Scouting has always been a safe place. Will a MB change that? AND, there will always be bad acting by unit leaders. Will a MB change that? The BSA already has the core values in place to guide and judge acceptable behavior toward other peoples differences with a proven program method to practice those values. The program shouldn't add more repetitive systematic bureaucracy that does nothing to improve the method of implementation.. If folks at National want to give the appearance a being progressive without the appearance of self-serving wokeness (what ever it's called), they should have shown how the present program has been doing exactly what the MB is implying for over 100 years. There is no controversy because the practice of considering the differences of others is the Scouting program. I'm perplexed how the folks at National are so blind to the opportunity of marketing this program as a program for guiding youth in the habits of being sensitive to others. Barry 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owls_are_cool Posted December 30, 2020 Share Posted December 30, 2020 I work hard to not expose my scouts to my politics. They occasionally say stuff about politicians that are factually false, but I resist the urge to debate and correct them. I believe keeping my personal politics out of my Troop will make it more inclusive and prime it for growth. I am okay with boys having political debates with each other, but I am quick to shut the debate down when it crosses the line when scouts start attacking each other (as usually happens with political debates). I have parents of scouts that are on both sides of the political divide and they appreciate my neutrality with scouts even though I am politically active outside of the Troop. I am bothered that my troop lost a Native American scout last spring, while the troop went online during the covid lockdown. In talking with his mother, it had nothing to do with him not feeling a part of the troop, but instead it was too much "school-work" type of activities associated with scouting. So I have been encouraging my SPL to do less meetings and more activities. Unfortunately, national is no longer neutral politically and this is causing parents to pull their scouts from the program. Personally, I am offended that I need inclusiveness training, given I was bullied in my youth and have a heart for boys who do not fit in. While my son is now favoring baseball over boy scouts, this new merit badge starts with the premise that my son is not inclusive and is required to do this merit badge to get the Eagle rank. That is also offensive to me, so I am now inclined to let him leave scouting. Sadly national cares more about appeasing the looters, arsonists, etc of the BLM movement, than leaders like me who have invested many hours into scouts. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagledad Posted December 30, 2020 Share Posted December 30, 2020 8 minutes ago, Owls_are_cool said: Unfortunately, national is no longer neutral politically and this is causing parents to pull their scouts from the program. Personally, I am offended that I need inclusiveness training, given I was bullied in my youth and have a heart for boys who do not fit in. While my son is now favoring baseball over boy scouts, this new merit badge starts with the premise that my son is not inclusive and is required to do this merit badge to get the Eagle rank. That is also offensive to me, so I am now inclined to let him leave scouting. Sadly national cares more about appeasing the looters, arsonists, etc of the BLM movement, than leaders like me who have invested many hours into scouts. I've been sitting here thinking about how times I have heard the members of a EBOR ask the Eagle candidate for an example of how they applied the Scout Law and Oath in their life. Usually the answer has something in common with the premise of this subject. National has really missed the boat here. Barry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwazse Posted December 30, 2020 Share Posted December 30, 2020 @Owls_are_cool (and anyone in his position), as a general rule, if your son wants to take a break from scouting or leave it altogether ... let him. Don’t let current events be a tipping point one way or another. Regarding requiring this badge for Eagle. Nobody has to earn Eagle. No SM has to encourage a scout to earn it. I recommend that you take this as an opportunity to use advancement for something different: fun. Enjoy the hiking and camping and service projects and get scouts to Life rank. The few who want to be Eagle Scouts will find their way. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fred8033 Posted December 30, 2020 Share Posted December 30, 2020 (edited) Well said .... I'd upvote your post, but I fear the last statement. 2 hours ago, Owls_are_cool said: I work hard to not expose my scouts to my politics. They occasionally say stuff about politicians that are factually false, but I resist the urge to debate and correct them. I believe keeping my personal politics out of my Troop will make it more inclusive and prime it for growth. I am okay with boys having political debates with each other, but I am quick to shut the debate down when it crosses the line when scouts start attacking each other (as usually happens with political debates). Exactly how it should be. Keep leader politics out of scouting. 2 hours ago, Owls_are_cool said: I am bothered that my troop lost a Native American scout last spring, while the troop went online during the covid lockdown. In talking with his mother, it had nothing to do with him not feeling a part of the troop, but instead it was too much "school-work" type of activities associated with scouting. So I have been encouraging my SPL to do less meetings and more activities. Exactly how it should be. Activities over sit-down meetinsg or power-point merit badges. IMHO, there is little place in scouting for power-point and lectures. ... Perhaps we should adopt a rule from my work about daily status meetings. Applied to scouting, all scouting lectures / teaching should be done with everyone STANDING, huddled together. It encourages lecutres to be five minutes or less so that scouts can get back to being active. 2 hours ago, Owls_are_cool said: Unfortunately, national is no longer neutral politically and this is causing parents to pull their scouts from the program. Many recent changes were about making scouting neutral. Membership changes were pretty much exactly about that. Let the charter org use the membership policies that reflect their values. The result I've seen is that even the most conservative charter organizations are open to all scouts and the membership changes have not affected the program. 2 hours ago, Owls_are_cool said: Personally, I am offended that I need inclusiveness training, ... this new merit badge starts with the premise that my son is not inclusive and is required to do this merit badge to get the Eagle rank. ... That is also offensive to me .... Absolutely agreed. There is a direct inference that our scouting unit and myself have been discriminatory, racist and bigoted. Even further, I would be extremely offended if this MBC requires a different vetting for the MBC than other merit badges. 2 hours ago, Owls_are_cool said: ... so I am now inclined to let him leave scouting. I pushed to keep my sons in scouting and my wife really wanted each to earn Eagle. In hind sight, I continually wonder if I should have let them drop and find other activities as they matured and had bad experiences in scouting. I talk about the value of sleeping in a tent you setup yourself. In parallel, there is extreme value in choosing your own path. Each has had a different path. Each has benefited significantly, but three of the four also had at least one year where they did not want to be there anymore. Two sons had great patrols that mostly stuck together until 18 and are life-long friends. I also wonder about why not Disabilities Awareness being a required MB. Each and every scout will encounter multiple scouts with ADHD, etc, mental and physical disorders. Why is Disabilities Awareness not a required MB ? 2 hours ago, Owls_are_cool said: Sadly national cares more about appeasing the looters, arsonists, etc of the BLM movement, than leaders like me who have invested many hours into scouts. Be careful. This is exactly the sterotyping and labeling we must avoid always. Protesters and movements have absolutely valid issues. All protesters and movements are not criminals anymore than all cops are bastards. These are extremely hard, complex, ugly issues that should NOT be brought into scouting. Edited December 30, 2020 by fred8033 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CynicalScouter Posted December 30, 2020 Author Share Posted December 30, 2020 (edited) 20 minutes ago, fred8033 said: Even further, I would be extremely offended if this MBC requires a different vetting for the MBC than other merit badges. It has been confirmed: you will need to be "vetted" (that was the word used) by a district or council "task force" or the advancement committee specially for this MB. The requirements were agreed in November; the vetting process and how that will be done is what has held things up. Again, the only MBs I am aware of this happening before is things like shotgun shooting, you know, where the kid may wind up DEAD if the MBC screws this up. But DE&I? We all know what it is code for: you must prove you are a social justice warrior before you can be a MBC for this or at least mouth the right words/take the right course. Edited December 30, 2020 by CynicalScouter 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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