ParkMan Posted December 19, 2020 Share Posted December 19, 2020 (edited) 4 hours ago, InquisitiveScouter said: @ParkMan How about this for the new DE&I MB requirements? 1. Don't judge someone until you've walked a mile in their shoes. 2. Love your neighbor as you love yourself. The End I could go for that...but I think those are already encapsulated in the Scout Oath and Law. And the only angst I sense here is yours. Physician, heal thyself! Hey @InquisitiveScouter - Sorry I missed this earlier. Didn't mean to offend. It just felt to me like you an @CynicalScouter were getting pretty worked up over having this merit badge and the political implications of it. i.e. - discussions of opting out of the MB because of laws the prevent sex education. Sounds like I mis-read it. My mistake. I just think that we should look at this merit badge as an opportunity for youth to consider how they relate to each other. We live in a country today that's becoming increasingly polarized - often because of political beliefs. This MB can be a very small way to help break down some of those barriers during the Scouting years. That doesn't seem to awful to me. Again - didn't mean to offend here. My regrets for doing so. Edited December 19, 2020 by ParkMan clarified a thought Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TAHAWK Posted December 20, 2020 Share Posted December 20, 2020 2 hours ago, Navybone said: But that is exactly why this is an important opportunity. What should a scout do if he/she meets someone who is gay (and they will)? Ignore them, pretend they do not exist? Pick on them, bully them? Or maybe accept them as a person with a different view. This is not about changing anyone’s mind, it’s accepting people for being different than them. So long as they are "different" in a policitcally correct way? I propose that one be polite to everyone. IS he or she "one"? Be polite. No mpore "education" required. Of course that;s naive. It's impolite to shake hands or eat with the left hand to a traditional Muslim., or to look at their daughter's bare ankles. Being reprectful turns out to be darned hard in a homogenious society. I have an Ohio American Flag license plate and my car got keyed with a lrge "PIG" Wednesday in a parking lot. Perhaps I made someone feel unsafe. I shudder to think a sticker supprting my son who's a State cop would bring. After all, "ACAB." No "edit" link. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TAHAWK Posted December 20, 2020 Share Posted December 20, 2020 "Your replies have been merged." What if I don;t want them "merged"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Navybone Posted December 20, 2020 Share Posted December 20, 2020 36 minutes ago, TAHAWK said: So long as they are "different" in a policitcally correct way? I propose that one be polite to everyone. IS he or she "one"? Be polite. No mpore "education" required. Of course that;s naive. It's impolite to shake hands or eat with the left hand to a traditional Muslim., or to look at their daughter's bare ankles. Being reprectful turns out to be darned hard in a homogenious society. I have an Ohio American Flag license plate and my car got keyed with a lrge "PIG" Wednesday in a parking lot. Perhaps I made someone feel unsafe. I shudder to think a sticker supprting my son who's a State cop would bring. After all, "ACAB." No "edit" link. I agree that everyone should be polite, but we do not life in a utopia. Look at politics now. We have a general break downs in basic courtesies in this country. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post fred8033 Posted December 20, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted December 20, 2020 (edited) 9 hours ago, ParkMan said: I am fine discussing that this is a topic that involves some politics, but let's leave our own personal politics out of this. We do not need a Scoutmaster in that 10-30% who doesn't believe that discrimination exists injecting their own personal beliefs. Impossible. ... We value making connections with our scouts. To make connections, we talk. Maybe a few can discuss this topic at the ideal concept level. But most will bring their politics into it, left or right. That's the nature of discussion. Specifics will be discussed. Is chanting "All Cops Are Bastards." a form of bullying? Is that the right way to protest? How about specific police incidents? Should you get a permit to protest? Is it okay to march on the highway? I can't tap dancing around the meat and expect the scouts to respect the discussion. I just don't see how this MB is a good idea. This should have been just a few additional requirements to one of the Citizen badges. Edited December 20, 2020 by fred8033 1 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fred8033 Posted December 20, 2020 Share Posted December 20, 2020 8 hours ago, ParkMan said: I choose to look at things like this and ask "what's the best way for youth to take advantage of this?" Given how polarized our country is today, I think a merit badge focused on getting kids to think about how they relate to others isn't such an awful idea. Our kids are getting indoctrinated at school, entertainment, etc all the time. Scouts should put this in the context of Scout Law and Oath and the nature of being a good person. To be honest, the MB is bordering on offensive to me that we need this as a MB. I'd rather see a required MB for sewing or a specific skill. This MB is at best a waste and a worst yet another MB that will be mostly done very poorly. 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fred8033 Posted December 20, 2020 Share Posted December 20, 2020 8 hours ago, Navybone said: When Adults try to use this to to push one agenda or create obstacles to the MB being implemented, I can not help but wonder why. What do they have against the basic premise or Diversity and inclusion? Not the liberal or conservative interpretation of the terms, but the idea of treating people fairly, with respect, with equality. Maybe they also need to earn the MB. Because pushing this badge is offensive. A mentor of mine a long time ago said to watch out for companies that have signs such as "# of days without an accident" because those are the companies with accidents. So we need this badge because our scouts are ignorant about diversity, equality and inclusion? From what I've learned, this is being shoved down their throat day after day. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fred8033 Posted December 20, 2020 Share Posted December 20, 2020 (edited) 4 hours ago, ParkMan said: @Jameson76 Thanks for the thoughts. Perhaps I live in a Pollyanna world, but I just think this merit badge would work better if we just let the Scouts think through these questions without the implicit or explicit sharing of personal politics of the adult leaders. Kids of today, especially those in their mid teens are very aware of current events. With the explosion of social media, kids today are living these issues in their daily lives. I have every confidence that if we adults step back and let these kids discuss these issues without adults interjecting our politics they'll do a great job. They may or may not arrive at the same conclusions I have personally and that's OK. But, I have no doubt that they will do an outstanding job discussing them without me interjecting my own beliefs. To me it's sort of like "youth led" in Scouting. We try to let the youth have their own space to make their own leadership decisions. I just think we ought to do the same here. As a MB, we are defining this as a discussion with an adult. You are right that scouts discuss this continually on their own and they discuss specifics. But MBs are about the adult connection with an experienced expert. Edited December 20, 2020 by fred8033 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParkMan Posted December 20, 2020 Share Posted December 20, 2020 14 minutes ago, fred8033 said: As a MB, we are defining this as a discussion with an adult. You are right that scouts discuss this continually on their own and they discuss specifics. But MBs are about the adult connection with an experienced expert. Thanks for all the appends and responses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fred8033 Posted December 20, 2020 Share Posted December 20, 2020 10 minutes ago, ParkMan said: Thanks for all the appends and responses. Yeah. Over the top. My apologies. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParkMan Posted December 20, 2020 Share Posted December 20, 2020 23 minutes ago, fred8033 said: Yeah. Over the top. My apologies. Sorry - that's not what I meant. This is a great place for working through our thoughts and I really did appreciate all your thoughts and energy on this. I just don't know that I have much more to add to this topic. To me, this is a merit badge that while not perfect and certainly boring, can have some redeeming value if we let it. Yet, I don't feel so strongly on it that it's right of me to advocate too much for a particular approach here beyond what I mentioned before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fred8033 Posted December 20, 2020 Share Posted December 20, 2020 (edited) 22 minutes ago, ParkMan said: Sorry - that's not what I meant. This is a great place for working through our thoughts and I really did appreciate all your thoughts and energy on this. I just don't know that I have much more to add to this topic. To me, this is a merit badge that while not perfect and certainly boring, can have some redeeming value if we let it. Yet, I don't feel so strongly on it that it's right of me to advocate too much for a particular approach here beyond what I mentioned before. Thank you. It's my view of scouting is different. I've always seen scouting as something different that our youth need. Knives. Fire. Outside in the rain. Getting the scouts out doing things. It's why I like the MBs that require activity. I don't have issues with the ideas in the badge. I have an issue that it's a badge. In this context, the scouts should be required to earn a Scout Law merit badgse. We teach values during our activities, not as the activity itself. Edited December 20, 2020 by fred8033 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParkMan Posted December 20, 2020 Share Posted December 20, 2020 17 minutes ago, fred8033 said: Thank you. It's my view of scouting is different. I've always seen scouting as something different that our youth need. Knives. Fire. Outside in the rain. Getting the scouts out doing things. It's why I like the MBs that require activity. I could not agree more that this is where Scouting should focus with the youth. Very well said! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeBob Posted December 20, 2020 Share Posted December 20, 2020 I fear that the DEI MB will make the situation worse. The racists will use DEI to reinforce their position: "Even the Boy Scouts are preaching the BLM propaganda!" The liberals will rejoice: "See! We were right. BSA admits to toxic masculinity! Nah, nah, nah nah-nah." Those in the middle trying to keep an open mind, which I hope includes most scouts, will keep their mouths shut; while their private thoughts gravitate towards the side with the most concrete examples. While the high-minded fantasies celebrate, the divide grows underneath . 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InquisitiveScouter Posted December 20, 2020 Share Posted December 20, 2020 (edited) Colleges and universities, judicial system, language, media, family, etc... This is just part of the long march through the institutions... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_long_march_through_the_institutions https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Institution Edited December 20, 2020 by InquisitiveScouter 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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