Is the BSA trying to "put itself to sleep"?

[Mrjeff]

I'm sure that there are many examples of justification to support the changes in the BSA.  I really would like to know the real reason for these changes, and I  don't mean the rhetoric about the welfare and safety of the children.  Membership in all areas is way down so the registration fees for a new youth member is now nearly $100.00.  The position specific training requirements should grant you a masters degree.   Youth protection is mandatory but the system in place to complete the training doesn't always work and may not record it's completion.  The new requirement to have a camp administrator for all council or district camping events is unrealistic and requires a nine hour virtual class that costs the participant $75.00.  The Order of the Arrow is pushing for virtual inductions and summer camp can be done on line.  Scouting was a fun, outdoor activity that was affordable for most and didn't require a masters degree in sociology to conduct.  I can't see how raising the cost and inventing all kinds of requirements is helping to preserve the Boy Scouts, BSA or any other organization that is run by volunteers.   If all of these requirements are mandatory then perhaps they rewrite Wood Badge again and include school room classes in these subjects.  "Outing" is being removed from the program and has been replaced by leadership and developmental theory.  Perhaps a better title would be "Young People's Leadership and Development Society" and simply do away with outside activities.  It looks to me as the BSA is systematically insulating the professional staff by placing a bunch of requirements on volunteers that can be verified in case of trouble.  This clearly removes any responsibility for anything away from the BSA and places it squarely on the shoulders of the volunteer.   I just want to know the truth.

[Eagle94-A1]

This is what happens when folks in charge have no true experience in the program as a youth or volunteer,.

[qwazse]

You're description is fit. I describe it as defensive scouting. Or, metaphorically, "circling the wagons."

Sadly, I don't think it will do much to stop incoming projectiles.

[scoutldr]

Or, in medical terms, "circling the drain."

[qwazse]

2 hours ago, scoutldr said:

Or, in medical terms, "circling the drain."

Well, the medical metaphor might be inducing coma.

[David CO]

It certainly feels like BSA is trying to undermine its own program.  It's hard to believe that they could be doing all this by incompetence alone.  There must be some degree of intentional self-injury here.  

[CynicalScouter]

I think this conflates two different things: the actions necessary to keep scouting alive coming out of the abuse scandal and the actions necessary to keep scouting alive during COVID.

20 hours ago, Mrjeff said:

I really would like to know the real reason for these changes, and I  don't mean the rhetoric about the welfare and safety of the children. 

Excuse me, but why is the welfare and safety of the scouts not a "real" reason to you? I think it is but if you want to turn it negative, try this.

Many of the legal claims claims lodged against National and the Councils are that they let untrained/under-trained and unvetted/under-vetted volunteers out into the woods with children in close quarters for prolonged periods of time. The claims filed include claims of negligence in hiring (volunteers are "hired" for these purposes), negligence in supervision, and negligence in training as well as general negligence or gross negligence. You may remember the $20 million Oregon case? Those three claims were the key to that lawsuit as the Oregon Court of Appeals noted (Lourim v. Swensen 936 P.2d 1011 (1997)

Quote

Against Swensen [the abusive Scout leader], plaintiff alleged claims of sexual assault and battery. Against the Boy Scouts [Cascade Pacific Council and the Boy Scouts of America], he asserted liability on the basis of respondeat superior and negligent retention, training and supervision of Swensen.

While the Oregon Supreme Court would later overturn the judgement on the respondeat superior claim, it LEFT ALONE the claims that Cascade Pacific Council and Boy Scouts of America were negligent in retention, training, and supervision of Swensen.

There were dozens of other cases where the claims were that National and/or the Councils were negligent in retention, training and supervision or some combination.

So you are darn right national and councils are pushing the training, because they've learned that anything less is simply inviting them to get sued into the ground.

And keep in mind that the latest figures indicate that there remains a LARGE percentage of scout leaders who are not even YPT trained. That's why the new charter agreement puts in italics

Quote

(no leader is registered w/o YPT)

And why the long term plan is that every adult leader must be position trained. I know several councils which have already adopted this.

Tidewater comes to mind https://tidewaterbsa.com/training-information/100-position-basic-trained-policy/

Other councils will not even allow you to apply for a position unless you are position trained. Colonial Virginia announced starting 1/2/2022 you may not even APPLY for a registered adult position unless you are position trained (except for IOLS and/or BALOO; you'll have 1 year to complete)

https://www.cvcboyscouts.org/uploads/2/3/5/7/23572110/cvc_training_requirements.pdf

As for the rest

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The Order of the Arrow is pushing for virtual inductions and summer camp can be done on line. 

Yes, because during COVID in many states scouting couldn't happen otherwise. Virginia just went back into 10-person lock down and summer camps/overnight camps are effectively being shut down again. The choice in many states was virtual induction/virtual summer camp or nothing at all. If in a year from now we have a vaccine and COVID is contained/under control and they are still doing this let's talk then. But for now, the options were virtual vs. nothing, I'd rather they do virtual.

[Eagle94-A1]

10 minutes ago, CynicalScouter said:

 

And keep in mind that the latest figures indicate that there remains a LARGE percentage of scout leaders who are not even YPT trained. That's why the new charter agreement puts in italics

Could you please share this stat, it's source, and methodology used for creating it as it is impossible to be registered without YPT. I know volunteers who have not had their applications processed because they did not provide the YPT certificate. I also know of Scouters who were removed from charters because their YPT had lapsed, which is a completely different category IMHO.

 

 

 

 

[CynicalScouter]

6 minutes ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

Could you please share this stat, it's source, and methodology

See slides 28 and 29 from here Churchill Plan Proposed New Territory Structure and Council Standards

The STANDARD will be 98%, not 100%. And this is coming from instances where there are units that have adults who are "stealth leaders" but won't do the YPT. This the ASM who simply "doesn't have time" to do the YPT and the unit lets them operate off-the-books.

 

Quote

The council performance standards committee identified and recommended following items to measure:
• Youth Safety 98% Youth Protection Training

and

Quote

# 1 Youth Safety Recommended Strategy
Raise the National BSA minimum standards for youth safety of councils to be at least 98% and not allow adult Scout leader’s YPT certification expire at the end of the Recharter year

 

Edited December 11, 2020 by CynicalScouter

[Eagle94-A1]

Thank you. I will look at the info when I get off work.

Regarding

2 hours ago, CynicalScouter said:

The STANDARD will be 98%, not 100%. And this is coming from instances where there are units that have adults who are "stealth leaders" but won't do the YPT. This the ASM who simply "doesn't have time" to do the YPT and the unit lets them operate off-the-books.

Could this be national's way of recognizing that volunteer's applications get lost, are delayed in processing, etc? I know I submitted an application for a POR in May one year, and it was not processed until August or September. A friend had his app submitted in August or September, and had to resubmit at recharter. And my wife submitted 6 applications with current YPT certificate over a 5 year period, and was never registered until I emailed everything saying this needed to stop. She had served as an AWDL, WDL, day camp staffer, and MBC, all the while she was not registered because the council lost the applications. I even hand delivered one of them, and they still lost it. And it was not as if she was never registered in the council. She was a member of the summer camp crew as an AA  ten years prior. Sad thing is, she was "inelligble" for any of the lifesaving awards because she was unregistered, when she pulled a guy out of a lake when on a Webelos activity at a local park. And those who helped her once she got the guy on land did not want their applications forwarded since my wife did the hard stuff.

[FireStone]

On 12/10/2020 at 11:21 AM, Mrjeff said:

The Order of the Arrow is pushing for virtual inductions and summer camp can be done on line...

...Perhaps a better title would be "Young People's Leadership and Development Society" and simply do away with outside activities. 

These are covid-related changes, and they're temporary. The BSA hasn't removed any outdoor components of the program in the handbooks.

I keep hearing this allegation that the BSA is cutting out the outdoorsy stuff or that units in the past did more stuff outdoors. If any of that is true, it's not because of anything the BSA is doing.

[David CO]

2 hours ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

Could you please share this stat, it's source, and methodology used for creating it as it is impossible to be registered without YPT. 

I was wondering about that too.  Now I am wondering how BSA manages to count the unregistered leaders.  I'm sure there are unregistered leaders.  I suspect the number of unregistered leaders will increase as the fees and training requirements go up.  Don't know that for a fact, but it would make sense.  I'm just wondering how they came up with that number.

[Eagle94-A1]

8 minutes ago, David CO said:

I was wondering about that too.  Now I am wondering how BSA manages to count the unregistered leaders.  I'm sure there are unregistered leaders.  I suspect the number of unregistered leaders will increase as the fees and training requirements go up.  Don't know that for a fact, but it would make sense.  I'm just wondering how they came up with that number.

That is a VERY good question. @CynicalScouter do you know how BSA keeps tracks of unregistered volunteers if they do not register?

[Eagle94-A1]

10 minutes ago, FireStone said:

These are covid-related changes, and they're temporary. The BSA hasn't removed any outdoor components of the program in the handbooks.

I keep hearing this allegation that the BSA is cutting out the outdoorsy stuff or that units in the past did more stuff outdoors. If any of that is true, it's not because of anything the BSA is doing.

Well, BSA use to promote "Hiking and Camping Troops" and getting into the outdoors every month. Now the minimum is 4 times a year plus summer camp. And for JTE purposes, lock ins at the CO, museum, indoor stadium, etc count towards camping.

[Eagle94-A1]

@CynicalScouter

Reviewed the power point. My comments are the following

1. Why is the goal 98% and not 100% since you cannot register without current YPT?

2. Are you not supposed to be notified when YPT via email is about to expire? That is what I have been told, although I have been told a lot about BSA's IT structure that I am still waiting on. When I teach the live YPT, I add my name to the list for renewal, so I do not know. Or does the 98% mean CURRENT YPT certification.?

3. Did not see in the slides where anything about "off the books volunteers." Where are you seeing that as I cannot find it? 

4. What is the actual % of adults who never took YPT and are registered? What is the actual % of adults who have expired YPT? And what is the number of adults with current YPT that are not registered?

 

Please do not think I am attacking you. Rather I want information. What I have been told and taught over the years is being contradicted, and i want the truth. I have had issues with the BSA saying one thing, and doing something else in the past. And it is getting frustrating.