Major Change in Chartered Organization Relationship

[SiouxRanger]

13 hours ago, 1980Scouter said:

Does anyone know what is going on with the Catholic Church and their future with Scouting?

I know some dioceses ended the relationship but not all. I would think there will be a national guidance issued.

 

Our Diocese has decided not to recharter any BSA Troops.  77 years our Parish chartered our Troop and Pack.  We found a new CO, but it took 5 months to do so.

And so it goes.

I am reminded of a M.A.S.H. episode where Hawkeye and BJ are sitting opposite a chess board, with a few chess pieces and checkers on the board, and holding about 8 playing cards each.

Someone walks in, looks at the absurd concatenation of game pieces and asks "What are you playing and what are the rules?"

"We're playing 'Double Cranko-' There are no rules."

Welcome to Natonal's Bankruptcy.

In my humble opinion, National is trying to make bankruptcy rules.

And we shall see.

[RememberSchiff]

12 hours ago, yknot said:

I agree. I've mentioned that here before and often been scoffed at. Pretty much every kind of insurance I've worked with has been tightening for decades but it's gotten particularly bad in the last 10 years or so. There has been a particular change in the youth market though and we are starting to feel it. Apart from the UMC, in the past year we've had several private or commercial youth properties who used to allow scout access say scouts can no longer use their properties due to insurance. Scouts specifically, not other youth organizations. I think scouts may be in danger of becoming the equivalent of a dangerous dog breed in the youth insurance market. 

As I recall past discussions, requiring volunteers to buy personal liability insurance was proposed. I have not seen that mentioned in the new CO model.

[yknot]

2 hours ago, RememberSchiff said:

As I recall past discussions, requiring volunteers to buy personal liability insurance was proposed. I have not seen that mentioned in the new CO model.

Yes, I and others generally recommend anyone working as a volunteer with youth carry a $1 million umbrella liability policy. There are many other settings where that That is not something that would be recommended as part of a CO model it's more of a personal decision. This discussion is more about the general liability market for scouting. Is that what you meant? 

[GrammaScout]

On 12/4/2020 at 4:59 PM, CynicalScouter said:

It depends on if there are such waves in 2021.

The point of the bankruptcy is that there won't be any future claims against National and the participating Councils for actions prior to 2019 or 2020. That just leaves the COs who will argue that they are covered by insurance from National and/or the Council.

 

Are there any such 'waves' ?      

[RememberSchiff]

At the CO level, the thought was to divide required liability insurance expenses between volunteers (personal) and CO (facility).

Personally I have carried my own personal liability insurance as recommended long ago in this forum and other youth groups I have volunteered. I have no confidence in any BSA insurance for which I do not have a hardcopy of the policy.

[jcousino]

Help me understand things under the this new arrangement (council is now the CO)

1. Council now can select or reject a troop leader  based on their personal relationship with council, so council  can cherry pick people and those that question council activity can just not be accepted. 

2. Can council merge units based on what ever three small troops may become one.

3. Do we know the fee that will be charged to manage troop account's?

4. Can council now require unit to attend  activities or face changes in leadership?

5. Will council now be able to say no to troop trips (to nonscout bases ).

6. At what level will council require troops to get approval to spend money

7. Will donations to FOS be made automatically

Just a few of my wild thoughts

Fr. John

[GMarshMo]

Our Troop leadership shares many of the concerns mentioned above, but without seeing the written agreement, our units cannot yet have any substantive discussions or make any decisions regarding how or if we are to move forward.  We have two large units at our Methodist Church.  Does anyone know when the new affiliation agreement will be made available to view or have a link?  I attended the zoom informational meeting, but have yet to see the agreement and I cannot find it online.

[RememberSchiff]

@GMarshMo welcome to scouter.com

 

[yknot]

2 hours ago, GMarshMo said:

Our Troop leadership shares many of the concerns mentioned above, but without seeing the written agreement, our units cannot yet have any substantive discussions or make any decisions regarding how or if we are to move forward.  We have two large units at our Methodist Church.  Does anyone know when the new affiliation agreement will be made available to view or have a link?  I attended the zoom informational meeting, but have yet to see the agreement and I cannot find it online.

It was originally supposed to be sent prior to the webinar I thought but at the webinar I think they said a copy would be sent out in the next couple of weeks along with a video of the meeting and some FAQs. Also based on what was said at the meeting they expect the process to roll out at different times for different councils over the summer, to conclude by October. My assumption is that they had to do something now to appease the UMC before the June deadline but probably are far from having all the details worked out as far as how all Councils will handle it. Some are not staffed to take over the CO role I gather. 

[FormerCubmaster]

It seems to me that via manuals, charter agreements, etc.  BSA has been telling the units sotto voce for a while that “all your toys REALLY belong to us”.  The warnings/reminders seem to be getting increasingly intense, and are starting to smack of demands.

It seems clear to me that with traditional chartering/sponsoring civic organizations—churches, Lions/Rotary clubs, Masonic lodges, etc—on the decline, and with the high startup costs for new units of an outdoors-based program like the BSA, BSA isn’t going to be able to attain its stated goal of better serving underprivileged kids unless there is a substantial redistribution of resources from the established units to the newer ones.  Why should Troop 89’s tents, stoves, trailer, etc sit unused for three weeks out of the month when there are three other units who don’t have that kind of gear and who will never be able to acquire it because of structural inequities within our social system?  Modern conceptions of equity and justice demand that Troop 89 share the wealth.

It’s no skin off my nose at this point—I was with an LDS unit for about 12 years, and we’re well out of the Scouting game now.  But our unit’s relationship with the council/BSA for nearly all of that time was roughly equivalent to the relationship between a milk cow and a farmer (assuming the milk cow has to pay for all its own food, plus paying rent to the farmer, plus having the farmer throw a shovelful of manure at the cow once or twice a week just because he can).  Now that the Mormons are gone, it looks an awful lot to me like BSA has chosen the Methodist units as their next cash cow.

I’d run away, if I were them.

[Eagle94-A1]

5 minutes ago, FormerCubmaster said:

 Why should Troop 89’s tents, stoves, trailer, etc sit unused for three weeks out of the month when there are three other units who don’t have that kind of gear and who will never be able to acquire it because of structural inequities within our social system?  Modern conceptions of equity and justice demand that Troop 89 share the wealth.

That is one of my concerns with the new model as I have seen councils take OA money earmarked for paying for camp improvements being put into the general fund and spent, as well as council moving an OA chapter's equipment from one camp to another without telling anyone. Lodge didn't find out about the money until bills came due and were unpaid. Chapter didn't find out about equipment until a workday.

[5thGenTexan]

Its not my intention to be snarky, but how will a council know what equipment a Unit has?  Our Methodist Church CO doesn't even know what we have. 

Edited June 20, 2022 by 5thGenTexan

[Eagle94-A1]

24 minutes ago, 5thGenTexan said:

Its not my intention to be snarky, but how will a council know what equipment a Unit has?  Our Methodist Church CO doesn't even know what we have. 

Bank accounts and anything that requires registration, i.e. trailers, boats, vans, buses, etc, will need to be transferred to the council's name. Existing equipment, tents, stoves, etc,  can theoretically be unreported. But you can bet your DO peach cobbler recipe council will want to know what you are spending money on. And since most units I know store their camping gear in the trailer, but you  a DO pizza recipe council will take it when they take the trailer.

[skeptic]

Let us try to not jump the gun with our already biased opinions.  Until we see the entire agreement, and we also see how it comes together, or apart, we should move ahead.  As far as most gear is concerned, the LC will have no place to keep it, and I believe that is actually part of the larger agreement.  We will be very wary of how it works, but it is too early to panic completely or rebel.  Our local church is still supportive and I do not see that changing.  

[DuctTape]

Now I am curious as to other's super secret peach cobbler recipes. Mine is just the typical dump cake style; nuttin' fancy.