Update on new Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion MB

[Bowsprit]

9 minutes ago, qwazse said:

Regarding equity, minorities are still not entering academia at a desirable rate. That's a disparity creating disparities that are hard to overcome via trades. My hope is that new media will be able to help minorities sharpen their business acumen so that they and their children may enroll later, and possibly with less debt.

This I agree with you on. It is only partially a cost problem, with rising tuition but programs heavily geared to assist racial minorities, and to a lesser extent low income whites. It is hard for a person who spent their youth in an apathetic, underfunded school, in a high crime area where getting through the day unscathed is more top of mind that getting good grades, to decide it might be better in college.

Regarding DEI, more talking about this helps nobody. Been doing that for 50 years, with minimal results. This is an action item for localities.

[Eagledad]

4 minutes ago, qwazse said:

Regarding equity, minorities are still not entering academia at a desirable rate. That's a disparity creating disparities that are hard to overcome via trades. My hope is that new media will be able to help minorities sharpen their business acumen so that they and their children may enroll later, and possibly with less debt.

Which minorities? My high school teacher son has been teaching in higher risk schools for over ten years and he says that resistance to higher education (or even K-12 education) is a cultural issue, not an opportunity issue.

Barry

[mashmaster]

2 hours ago, CynicalScouter said:

Through unofficial channels.

 

Yeah I heard that as well.  Unsure if it means they are revisiting the requirements or if it will exist.

[CynicalScouter]

31 minutes ago, mashmaster said:

Yeah I heard that as well.  Unsure if it means they are revisiting the requirements or if it will exist.

I cannot imagine they will rescind it; THAT would look horrible. "Yes, we publicly committed to a DEI merit badge, but now we aren't."

I suspect it will be retooled, revised, and put in place end of 2021.

Edited January 7, 2021 by CynicalScouter

[InquisitiveScouter]

6 minutes ago, CynicalScouter said:

I cannot imagine they will rescind it; THAT would look horrible. "Yes, we publicly committed to a DEI merit badge, but now we aren't."

I suspect it will be retooled, revised, and put in place end of 2021.

@CynicalScouter, Agreed, that bridge is burnt...they cannot go back

Revised requirements, and possibly a name change for the badge (Human Rights Merit Badge) is the compromise we could see. 

But, knowing some of the history of BSA's poorly implemented changes, I am doubtful of the product they will deliver.

Yet, I will remain the optimist, since they have delayed the release.  I think it is a good sign of internal wrestling and compromise.

[CynicalScouter]

28 minutes ago, InquisitiveScouter said:

@CynicalScouter, Agreed, that bridge is burnt...they cannot go back

Revised requirements, and possibly a name change for the badge (Human Rights Merit Badge) is the compromise we could see. 

But, knowing some of the history of BSA's poorly implemented changes, I am doubtful of the product they will deliver.

Yet, I will remain the optimist, since they have delayed the release.  I think it is a good sign of internal wrestling and compromise.

Merit badges from development to implementation I understand take YEARS. This was rammed and jammed in 4 months.

Moreover, the same source that kicked me that also told me that the requirements I posted earlier will now be sent to both social justice/MLB groups AND law enforcement groups for them to vet.

[scoutldr]

46 minutes ago, CynicalScouter said:

Merit badges from development to implementation I understand take YEARS. This was rammed and jammed in 4 months.

Moreover, the same source that kicked me that also told me that the requirements I posted earlier will now be sent to both social justice/MLB groups AND law enforcement groups for them to vet.

Major League Baseball??

[BQZip]

On 1/6/2021 at 8:18 AM, CynicalScouter said:

And if the end result is that the people most effected or disproportionately affected are minorities, still not racism?

No. It is not necessarily racism just because something impacts one group more than another. Antimalarial medications can affect people of Middle Eastern and African descent, but generally doesn't affect Asians, Caucasians, and Native Americans/Native Australians. It isn't racist just because there are disparate outcomes.

You have to take into account personal choices as well. Black people overwhelmingly choose to have babies outside of wedlock. The rate is staggering. It is a primary reason for the poverty rate for Black people and it's 100% within their control. It isn't racist just because there are disparate outcomes.

You also have to take into account general genetic predispositions. Black people, on average, are stronger than white people. There is a reason that so many athletes are Black. IMHO, that's a good thing. But is the NBA antisemitic because they have so few short, white Jews? It isn't racist just because there are disparate outcomes.

It's official...it's being delayed:
https://www.scouting.org/program-updates/proposed-eagle-scout-required-diversity-equity-and-inclusion-merit-badge-delayed/

Edited January 7, 2021 by BQZip

[BQZip]

1 minute ago, BQZip said:

 

It's official...it's being delayed:
https://www.scouting.org/program-updates/proposed-eagle-scout-required-diversity-equity-and-inclusion-merit-badge-delayed/

System automatically merged my reply...didn't want it to

[Jameson76]

My thought is everyone read the floated proposed requirements and said WTH, this is worthless.  Must have been a lot of pushback. 

The language was suspect at best and agenda driven at worst.

They decided to punt.

[InquisitiveScouter]

23 minutes ago, BQZip said:

System automatically merged my reply...didn't want it to

Anyone dare email the Office of the Chief Diversity Officer    and point them to this discussion thread for input?

https://www.scouting.org/program-updates/proposed-eagle-scout-required-diversity-equity-and-inclusion-merit-badge-delayed/

I do not email National any more.  They have skewered me more than once for my questions, and it has been a factor in reprisals by my local SE, I believe.

Edited January 7, 2021 by InquisitiveScouter

[BQZip]

Just now, InquisitiveScouter said:

Anyone dare email the Office of the Chief Diversity Office    and point them to this discussion thread for input?

https://www.scouting.org/program-updates/proposed-eagle-scout-required-diversity-equity-and-inclusion-merit-badge-delayed/

I do not email National any more.  They have skewered me more than once for my questions, and it has been a factor in reprisals by my local SE, I believe.

I've been in contract with my DE and, in turn, in contact with our CE. Our concerns are being heard. Diversity? In general, yes. Inclusion? Absolutely! Equity? Impossible. CRT garbage? Hard no...pass.

[qwazse]

Sorry @Bowsprit, DE&I (the concept, not patch, not political mantra) is interesting. For example, to @Eagledad's point:

3 hours ago, Eagledad said:

Which minorities? My high school teacher son has been teaching in higher risk schools for over ten years and he says that resistance to higher education (or even K-12 education) is a cultural issue, not an opportunity issue.

Barry

A cultural issue, a broken family issue, and a drug and alcohol and tobacco issue. Plus, a negative feedback loop where educators in certain districts have expected less of my scouts. It's the latter that has to be defeated as it was for me about a century ago:

The day that the school superintendent walked across town and explained to my grandfather why his kids should continue into middle and through high school ... is the day that rewrote history for eight children, dozens of grandchildren and great grandchildren, and who-knows-how-many citizens of this country. Wars were won, freedom was secured, and death was forestalled.

Frankly, the reason DE&I mantras seem to go nowhere is that it pushes solutions before giving someone a problem to solve. Instead, we train a scout to find a disparity (e.g., a swimmer is showing signs of fatigue while others are not) offer some manageable solutions (e.g., Reach, Throw, Row, Go with support) and enable the scout implement the solution (i.e., rescue the swimmer so that he/she can swim like everyone else).

Frankly, I think the MB would get traction if were named "Disparities", stripped of that bookwork and ridiculous pledge stuff, and boiled down to: a. find a disparity, b. fix it a little, c. reflect on your experience.

[InquisitiveScouter]

1 minute ago, qwazse said:

Sorry @Bowsprit, DE&I (the concept, not patch, not political mantra) is interesting. For example, to @Eagledad's point:

A cultural issue, a broken family issue, and a drug and alcohol and tobacco issue. Plus, a negative feedback loop where educators in certain districts have expected less of my scouts. It's the latter that has to be defeated as it was for me about a century ago:

The day that the school superintendent walked across town and explained to my grandfather why his kids should continue into middle and through high school ... is the day that rewrote history for eight children, dozens of grandchildren and great grandchildren, and who-knows-how-many citizens of this country. Wars were won, freedom was secured, and death was forestalled.

Frankly, the reason DE&I mantras seem to go nowhere is that it pushes solutions before giving someone a problem to solve. Instead, we train a scout to find a disparity (e.g., a swimmer is showing signs of fatigue while others are not) offer some manageable solutions (e.g., Reach, Throw, Row, Go with support) and enable the scout implement the solution (i.e., rescue the swimmer so that he/she can swim like everyone else).

Frankly, I think the MB would get traction if were named "Disparities", stripped of that bookwork and ridiculous pledge stuff, and boiled down to: a. find a disparity, b. fix it a little, c. reflect on your experience.

@qwazse, There you go trying to impose some common sense again.  Stop it, at once, you devil!

[John-in-KC]

Moderator note

Temporarily locked, National policy change