SM longevity?

[Armymutt]

I've read a few threads about "SM retirement date".  My experience has been with four troops.  The first SM was removed for being a pedophile.  My second troop had the same SM from 1946 until his death in 2011.  My third troop dissolved because of the military drawdown in England.  My fourth troop went through several SMs in the 3 years I was in it, due to military moves.  My natural line of thought is that an SM stays in their position for a long time in the civilian world.  Is that not usually the case?  Does it tend to be like Cub Scouts where the SM moves on when the kid/kids move on?  Maybe it was the years of experience, but my SM and ASM in the now 88 year old troop never seemed stressed out.  Even when the troop consisted of 3 6th graders, they still were super chill.  What causes most SMs to quit?

[Eagle94-A1]

Do no know about military affiliated troops, but in my experience with civilian troops is the same: SM stays for years. The SM in the first troop i joined had about 8 years in when he died. The second troop had an SM stay for 25 years. He left because if family and work issues. In my district  we had one SM start at age 19 (the offical SM had health issues and diedb then the next one was a true paper SM) until he turned 76. 

[Eagle94-A1]

As for why they quit, some if the reasons i have seen include:

Their health failing

Family members' health failing

New job/job responsibilities 

Take on new volunteer role at district/council level 

Conflict with other adults in unit

With sons out, wife pressures to step down

No longer fun.

[mashmaster]

Eagle has it listed pretty well.

For me it was a combination of conflicts with adults and my son unhappy and needing a change.  Now I am a Skipper and my son is almost complete with his Eagle rank.  Sea Scouts and Venturing made a world of difference for him.

[qwazse]

We're civilian, and it's pretty much like your experience (except for no pedophiles, thank God).

We try get a few years out of an SM, and the ASM's are half emeritus, half parents of current scouts. E.g., right now, our last three SMs have been parents of scouts, a former SM and myself (a former crew advisor) assist as the old guard. One ASM is a parent of a former scout, and the other a parent of a crossover. The same applies to our committee. Honestly, the best training I've had is around campfires with some of these old guard.

There are advantages and disadvantages to longer term SMs who are stronger leaders. The advantage is usually the boys get a more uniform experience over time. The disadvantage is they get "locked in" to things working a certain way.

Edited November 3, 2020 by qwazse

[FaithfulScouter]

In my experience, Scoutmasters quit because:

1. Their child(ren) have aged out

2. They can no longer take the conflict from fellow volunteers.

3. The low level of volunteerism causes them to be overworked.

4. The Scouts' parents are batshit crazy.

I was also told recently by a District person that other parents think it is 'creepy' when a volunteer stays in the Troop when they no longer have children in it.

 

[Sentinel947]

My Troop's Scoutmasters have typically served for 5-7 years. I think that's a good amount of time to gain proficiency, provide stability but also turn over often enough to give others an opportunity and the Troop a fresh perspective. 

[TMSM]

 

23 minutes ago, FaithfulScouter said:

In my experience, Scoutmasters quit because:

1. Their child(ren) have aged out

2. They can no longer take the conflict from fellow volunteers.

3. The low level of volunteerism causes them to be overworked.

4. The Scouts' parents are batshit crazy.

I was also told recently by a District person that other parents think it is 'creepy' when a volunteer stays in the Troop when they no longer have children in it.

 

I am currently at 1 and 3. The District person is obviously not doing their job. Troops should work hard to keep good SMs and a strong committe is key. SM who wants a strong program gets trapped if things gp wrong. Parents always blame me when things go wrong, always. CC needs to step up and take ownership for lack of volunteers this should not be the SMs role. Batshit crazy parents are persuaded to change to a different troop by the SM in our troop because CC has no backbone.

[Eagle94-A1]

1 hour ago, FaithfulScouter said:

I was also told recently by a District person that other parents think it is 'creepy' when a volunteer stays in the Troop when they no longer have children in it.

Or if you do not have kids at all. I am a Scouting addict. I was involved after aging out, and before the wife and I had kids. I had some weird looks and some whispers. One thing that helped during part of the time was I worked for national. The other thing was moving back to my wife's hometown, the one I was a DE for, and folks knew me. 

[mashmaster]

59 minutes ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

Or if you do not have kids at all. I am a Scouting addict. I was involved after aging out, and before the wife and I had kids. I had some weird looks and some whispers. One thing that helped during part of the time was I worked for national. The other thing was moving back to my wife's hometown, the one I was a DE for, and folks knew me. 

These are probably the same parents that also don't step up and volunteer.  When people complain, hand them an adult app and explain how many hours a week you spend on the program their son/daughter benefits from.

 

[qwazse]

1 hour ago, TMSM said:

I am currently at 1 and 3. The District person is obviously not doing their job. Troops should work hard to keep good SMs and a strong committe is key. SM who wants a strong program gets trapped if things gp wrong. Parents always blame me when things go wrong, always. CC needs to step up and take ownership for lack of volunteers this should not be the SMs role. Batshit crazy parents are persuaded to change to a different troop by the SM in our troop because CC has no backbone.

@TMSM, I hope #3 changes for you. The parents can certainly make it night and day. It was so easy for me to take the lead for summer camp this year because our committee did all of the sign-up and paper chase. Did they get some things wrong? Yes. Was it a big deal? No. Because we had some margin both in budget and cheerful parents.

[ParkMan]

I've always been a big believer in the notion that the troop adults have to really cultivate adult involvement.  It's not the CC's job alone to find more volunteers.  It's not the fault of the parents for not stepping up.  At every turn, the leaders have to be asking themselves - "How do we get more parents involved volunteering?"

It starts with the little things.  When a parent makes a comment about something small - the signups for an event or whether an email went out or not, then invite them to take on a little project.  Get parents out camping with you.  Can parents to hang out at meetings.

We noticed a trend where the pack had no problem getting den leaders, but we struggled with getting ASMs in the troop.  Then, we realized that part of the issue was the enormity of the role as ASM.  So, we started them with really small tasks and let them get comfortable first.  Before too long, we had more adults helping out. 

But, the challenge is that a CC cannot do that.  It takes an ASM or SM to do that.  As such, our SM needed to change his approach slightly.  Before too long he had an ASM or two who could help with some of the other ASMs and get them going.  Like anything, you've got to focus on what you want to have happen.  You want more adults to help, you have to focus on getting more adults to help.

 

[TMSM]

55 minutes ago, qwazse said:

@TMSM, I hope #3 changes for you. The parents can certainly make it night and day. It was so easy for me to take the lead for summer camp this year because our committee did all of the sign-up and paper chase. Did they get some things wrong? Yes. Was it a big deal? No. Because we had some margin both in budget and cheerful parents.

Thanks I am trying to help the CC recruit but he is more focused on me checking out and is looking for a new SM. My argument is that the CC should build a strong committee first then look for an SM. I have assured everyone that I will stick around until they can find the right SM(or tell me I am done)but I do expect growth in the committee. I am also currently growing my ASM team from 2 to 4 and most are good at letting the scouts run the troop. We have about 80% active rate in our troop so the scouts are happy, they can lead themselves etc. Our treasurer ages out in 3 months, no outdoor chair, no service project chair, no fundraiser chair. no recruiting chair. We have parents sit in the committee meeting and just observe but do not volunteer for anything.  

 

[yknot]

1 minute ago, TMSM said:

Thanks I am trying to help the CC recruit but he is more focused on me checking out and is looking for a new SM. My argument is that the CC should build a strong committee first then look for an SM. I have assured everyone that I will stick around until they can find the right SM(or tell me I am done)but I do expect growth in the committee. I am also currently growing my ASM team from 2 to 4 and most are good at letting the scouts run the troop. We have about 80% active rate in our troop so the scouts are happy, they can lead themselves etc. Our treasurer ages out in 3 months, no outdoor chair, no service project chair, no fundraiser chair. no recruiting chair. We have parents sit in the committee meeting and just observe but do not volunteer for anything.  

 

Um, anyone who registers a scout in our unit has to also sign up for a volunteer role? We will not accept their registration unless they sign up for something. It also encourages prompt delivery of paperwork because the easiest jobs go first. 

[ParkMan]

1 hour ago, yknot said:

Um, anyone who registers a scout in our unit has to also sign up for a volunteer role? We will not accept their registration unless they sign up for something. It also encourages prompt delivery of paperwork because the easiest jobs go first. 

My kids swim team did this.  At swim team sign up, they had large boards where everyone had to volunteer twice.  My wife wasn't interested, so I became a lane timer.  It was fun and a I volunteered a few more times too.