Multi-unit events in the time of COVID

[FireStone]

I've been digging for an answer to a question and can't find it:

What's the BSA's stance on multi-unit events/activities currently? For example 2 Packs, 1 or 2 Troops, 1 Crew getting together for an outdoor activity.

I've been comfortable with den and pack meetings, but this one has me hesitating, bringing kids together from different units, both pack and troop level, different schools, and during a week when we've some positive covid tests in local schools.

[Cleveland Rocks]

The BSA says: if all those units were charted to the same CO, then yes, they could do an activity together. But if they are not, the BSA says no. This was the stance prior to the pandemic; it is just being reiterated again. Because you'd be planning an activity for units that your CO does not charter, that would prevent the activity from being permitted.

The relevant quote from the BSA's COVID-19 FAQ (emphasis mine):

♦ Q: If my camp is cancelled, can my unit get together with other units and have our own camp?

No. Chartering organizations play an important role in the program and activities for their chartered units. Chartering organizations promote well-planned unit program for the units they charter and encourage their units to have active outdoor unit programs. Chartering organizations are not authorized to plan, promote, or deliver programs for units outside of their charter.

It is the role of the council to plan long-term or resident camps and the role of councils or districts to plan camporees and other outings during the year that give youth an opportunity to test their knowledge and skills in competitive events with other troops and/or patrols.

When units with different chartered organizations do activities together, this becomes a district or council event and requires council approval. In fact, some states require such activities to be licensed.

[yknot]

I don't think that's a good idea. Pre Covid we sometimes did things with other units but not now. Stay in your pod. 

 

[awanatech]

We have had three campouts with another Troop this year.  It's a Troop with whom we have done many things with over the years.  We've selected a location, but each Troop has made their wn arrangements as far as food, transportation, costs, etc.  We basically look at it like each Troop is doing their own campout, just at the same location.  Sometimes, the activities would coincide with each other.  Other times, we are doing separate stuff.  We have 1 family where the grandparents are raising the grandsons.  One grandson is in each Troop.  Last year, they had 2 Scouts who transferred to our Troop.  This year, we had 2 who transferred to their Troop.  Most of our Scouts are in school together & see each other outside of Scouting. We each have access to resources that we share with each other.  It has worked well for us, including this year.

[qwazse]

It’s actually a great idea that units have been doing for a long time.

BSA is trying to put and end to it out of a desire to ensure NCAP standards at all activities. It appears in he COVID FAQ because units were maneuvering to replace canceled council activities, this obviously undermines the council’s effort to limit community spread.

So, to the specific issue of COVID cases in school, if your scouts associate with those students, you need to seriously consider suspending activities for two weeks from the time that student was infected.

[Jameson76]

Don't kid yourself that this is about COVID.  That may be the reason given, but in all likelihood it's about money.  If units start doing things together and having a fun time, how in the world will the Council be able to monetize these events?  Why maybe we don't really need the council management overhead.

All those fees for camporees and council events come with a "surcharge" that goes to the council coffers.  God forbid,  troops may get together and run their own summer camp for a greatly reduced cost.

[Eagle94-A1]

1 hour ago, Jameson76 said:

Don't kid yourself that this is about COVID.  That may be the reason given, but in all likelihood it's about money.  If units start doing things together and having a fun time, how in the world will the Council be able to monetize these events?  Why maybe we don't really need the council management overhead.

All those fees for camporees and council events come with a "surcharge" that goes to the council coffers.  God forbid,  troops may get together and run their own summer camp for a greatly reduced cost.

There are 3 troops that have the same CO. They have been putting on their own summer camp and allowing others to attend for ages. Do not know if they still do it or not. It was 1/3 of the cost, but each unit had to provide MBCs for x number of Scouts attending. I am told it was a high quality camp, but never attended.

I also do not know when the "2 or more units =  distirct/council event" went into effect. I remember joint camping with other units.  I do know that as early as 2010, that rule was in effect, but in my council not widely known. Then again, my council didn't know Cub Scout Family Camping standards existed until 2010. " Cubs don't need to camp" was the attitude.

[ParkMan]

2 hours ago, Jameson76 said:

Don't kid yourself that this is about COVID.  That may be the reason given, but in all likelihood it's about money.  If units start doing things together and having a fun time, how in the world will the Council be able to monetize these events?  Why maybe we don't really need the council management overhead.

All those fees for camporees and council events come with a "surcharge" that goes to the council coffers.  God forbid,  troops may get together and run their own summer camp for a greatly reduced cost.

As a council Scouter part of the time, I can say that this isn't something anyone is concerned with.  Troops participate in district/council programming based on the quality of the programming.  A council summer camp is not worried that some units will get together and make their own summer camp.  If they were worried about competition and wanted to setup a monopoly they would prohibit out of council summer camps which are a significantly larger reality.

This is just about an overzealous risk management effort.

[RichardB]

Theories aside, perhaps one could review the CO agreement to see what is chartered or not?    https://filestore.scouting.org/filestore/membership/pdf/524-182_web.pdf  

RichardB

[ParkMan]

21 minutes ago, RichardB said:

Theories aside, perhaps one could review the CO agreement to see what is chartered or not?    https://filestore.scouting.org/filestore/membership/pdf/524-182_web.pdf  

RichardB

Uh. Not trying to be difficult, but I don't see anything in there that makes a statement about whether two or three units can jointly camp together.  This is why this has become something of a topic because no-one is aware of anything that says units cannot jointly plan a weekend together.  It's something of Scouting tradition that unit co-operate and work together.

[qwazse]

7 minutes ago, RichardB said:

Theories aside, perhaps one could review the CO agreement to see what is chartered or not?    https://filestore.scouting.org/filestore/membership/pdf/524-182_web.pdf  

RichardB

What is chartered is councils obligation:

Quote

Respect the aims and objectives of the Chartered Organization and assist the Chartered Organization by making available Scouting resources.

I know some COR's who object to their scouts camping with others. That generally comes straight from the CO. But many COs actually want to encourage their youth to share an activity or two. So, I take the agreement to read "What CO's have joined together, let no council put asunder."

[qwazse]

Another more nuanced question: are scouts from one troop/crew permitted to attend another unit's campout as provisional guests of that unit?

We've always taken this to be affirmative. An "official" example, most packs welcome den chiefs on a pack campout.

[Eagle94-A1]

23 minutes ago, RichardB said:

Theories aside, perhaps one could review the CO agreement to see what is chartered or not?    https://filestore.scouting.org/filestore/membership/pdf/524-182_web.pdf  

RichardB

With all due respect, nothing in the CO agreement prohibits it. Nor is there any prohibition in the Guide to Safe Scouting. Only place that rule can be found is NCAP, and how many units use that since that is for district/council level day camps and camps?

Besides, BSA has a history of changing the rules with little to no advance notice. Remember when 18-20 years olds could not count from as a second adult from February 1, 2018 to March 10? It got changed from because units complained because they did not have enough adults to cover summer camp and HA bases. You guys decided to wait until October 1, 2018. And don't forget the Dodgeball ban. From at least 1929 until 2018/19, Dodgeball was an approved game in SMHBs and Troop Program Resources.

[RichardB]

Perhaps one of you could point out where it enables an CO to do events for others in the name of scouting on behalf of the local council or BSA?   I don't think you are going to find that in there.   

[yknot]

Maybe we're confusing things here. Units team up, all or in part, for multiple types of things from HA blended crews to provisional camping to getting together to run a first aid merit badge session or for a cook off or service project. Staging a shadow council camp might be a different issue.