Troop assets

[tnmule20]

I'm sure this has been discussed before but I believe there was a change in 2018.

In the event of a Troop dissolving who owns the assets.  Troop bank account, trailer, chuck boxes, tents and all the other stuff that has been acquired over the years.

I always thought the CO owned the Troop and all of its assets but now I'm reading that the Council might have claim to some of it.

Our CO has given the Troop a place to meet and nothing else.  Not a dime.  The Troop has acquired everything on its own.

I just need a clear answer as to who owns what and what they can do with it if the Troop is not re-chartered.

 

 

[CynicalScouter]

RULES AND REGULATIONS OF THE BOY SCOUTS OF AMERICA

June 2018 revisions and current September 2020 says same

Quote

Council or Unit Assets Upon Dissolution

In the event of the dissolution of a unit or the revocation or lapse of its charter, unit funds and assets must be used to first satisfy any outstanding unit obligations. Any remaining assets obtained with funds raised in the name of Scouting must be redeployed for Scouting use in the local area. Any assets obtained with funds from the chartered organization or parents of registered members may be redeployed as agreed upon by the chartered organization and local council.

Compare the above to the 2007 version

Quote

In the event of the dissolution of a unit or the revocation or lapse of its charter, the unit committee shall apply unit funds and property to the payment of unit obligations and shall turn over the surplus, if any, to the local council, if there is one, or if there is no local council, dispose of the same in accordance with the direction of the Executive Board of the Boy Scouts of America. In the case of a chartered organization, any funds or equipment which may have been secured as property of the unit shall be held in trust by the chartering organization or the chartered local council, as may be agreed upon, pending reorganization of the unit or for the promotion of the program of the Boy Scouts of America.

Edited October 22, 2020 by CynicalScouter

[tnmule20]

9 minutes ago, CynicalScouter said:

RULES AND REGULATIONS OF THE BOY SCOUTS OF AMERICA September 2020
 

 

Thanks.

[InquisitiveScouter]

Thanks!  I learned something new today!  Didn't know this had "changed."

23 hours ago, CynicalScouter said:

Any remaining assets obtained with funds raised in the name of Scouting must be redeployed for Scouting use in the local area. Any assets obtained with funds from the chartered organization or parents of registered members may be redeployed as agreed upon by the chartered organization and local council.

I find this a bit disturbing...all assets should belong to the CO, period.  It is their program, and they get to decide what to do with the stuff.

This also has tax implications...for example...Scout unit does a fundraiser (..."in the name of Scouting?") to buy, say, a trailer to haul gear...if someone donates to that cause, it is the CO's EIN that records the donation.  That is, if the donor asks for a receipt for tax purposes, it is the CO's EIN (federal IRS Employer Identification Number) that is listed as the organization the money was given to.

"...may have been secured as property of the unit "?????

Also, Scout Troops aren't (normally) incorporated entities...they cannot "own" property.  For example, your Troop trailer should be titled to your CO!!  And, by extension, all gear is the CO's.  Council has naught to say about it's disposition.

The verbiage implies two pots of money:  1) funds raised in the name of Scouting, 2)  funds from COs or parents

Are your tracking which assets were bought from which "pot" of money?  We sure aren't...nor will we...  

[David CO]

30 minutes ago, InquisitiveScouter said:

 

The verbiage implies two pots of money:  1) funds raised in the name of Scouting, 2)  funds from COs or parents

 

Units aren't allowed to solicit funds in the name of scouting.  This is just one of many contradictions in BSA policy.  Units cannot raise funds in the name of scouting, but unit funds belong to BSA because they were raised in the name of scouting.  Pure self-serving double-talk.  BSA is just trying to intimidate CO's into turning over their property.  Or, worst yet, BSA is encouraging unit leaders to steal camping equipment from their former CO's.

 

Edited October 23, 2020 by David CO

[jjlash]

29 minutes ago, David CO said:

Units aren't allowed to solicit funds in the name of scouting.  This is just one of many contradictions in BSA policy.  Units cannot raise funds in the name of scouting, but unit funds belong to BSA because they were raised in the name of scouting.  Pure self-serving double-talk.  BSA is just trying to intimidate CO's into turning over their property.  Or, worst yet, BSA is encouraging unit leaders to steal camping equipment from their former CO's.

 

"Units aren't allowed to solicit funds in the name of scouting" does not equal "Units cannot raise funds in the name of Scouting"

Units absolutely can raise funds in the name of Scouting.  Fill out the "unit money earning application", get it approved by the district exec and off you go for any number of sales or service fundraisers.  What units cannot do is ask for "donations" - i.e. please give us money (for a project or not) just because we asked.  That avenue is reserved for councils.

That distinction does not change the discussion about who owns the money or items accumulated by a unit.  Im solidly in the camp of - the CO owns everything and the council should have no control/influence/benefit over it.

[CynicalScouter]

2 minutes ago, jjlash said:

Units absolutely can raise funds in the name of Scouting.  Fill out the "unit money earning application", get it approved by the district exec and off you go for any number of sales or service fundraisers.  What units cannot do is ask for "donations" - i.e. please give us money (for a project or not) just because we asked.  That avenue is reserved for councils.

That is apparently a bridge too far for many people here. The fundraising rules are there to be ignored.

[tnmule20]

On 10/22/2020 at 10:31 AM, CynicalScouter said:

Any remaining assets obtained with funds raised in the name of Scouting must be redeployed for Scouting use in the local area.

All of our Troop assets were obtained with funds raised in the name of Scouting.  So who does the redeploying for Scouting use in our local area?

[Treflienne]

Do I understand correctly that your CO is considering not rechartering your troop?

https://www.scouter.com/topic/31928-chapter-11-announced/page/45/?tab=comments#comment-517955

If that happens, will your troop look for a different CO, or will they disband?  If your troop looks for (and finds) a new CO,  is your old CO happy for you to take your camping gear with you to the new CO?   (I've heard of troops around here switching CO's.)

 

[tnmule20]

2 hours ago, Treflienne said:

Do I understand correctly that your CO is considering not rechartering your troop?

Don't know yet. We will find out on Monday. If we are not recharted the Troop will probably disband. The press for the BSA is bad right now and I don't know anyone interested in chartering a Troop. 

Edited October 24, 2020 by tnmule20

[qwazse]

5 hours ago, tnmule20 said:

All of our Troop assets were obtained with funds raised in the name of Scouting.  So who does the redeploying for Scouting use in our local area?

Best you make the first move. Decide if you’re gonna look for a new CO. If not see if the closest troop in your district will accept you handing down everything.

Leave a nominal donation to the church as you all move out.

[walk in the woods]

Offer your equipment for sale to the families and CO membership.  Spend that cash and every cent in the treasury on the biggest blow out fully catered no holds barred CoH.   If there's any equipment or cash left tell council to come and take it.  They arent going to lawyer up over it.  Hell they wont even force a DE to visit the CO.

[qwazse]

@walk in the woods, although I understand the “go out with a bang” mentality, it’s unlikely that all of the adults in a unit may share it. For example, my contributions to the troop for the past 5 years have nothing to do with my children — all adults. It would bother me greatly if those were squandered on individuals instead of helping some other troops keep rolling.

[walk in the woods]

2 hours ago, qwazse said:

@walk in the woods, although I understand the “go out with a bang” mentality, it’s unlikely that all of the adults in a unit may share it. For example, my contributions to the troop for the past 5 years have nothing to do with my children — all adults. It would bother me greatly if those were squandered on individuals instead of helping some other troops keep rolling.

Yep., I get that and have no issue with the strategy.  I'm just suggesting there is more than one way to skin a cat, and none of them involve turning assets over to a council.

[Double Eagle]

This was a topic of discussion last January where our LDS troops folded.  Their CO was the church and kept the assets to use in their similar program.  I don't see too much of an issue with a civil meeting between the unit and CO.  Many times the CO chooses to just let things go as they don't want to store old gear.  Event he troop flag, purchased by the CO, has been a long discussion.  I'd like to hear what the LDS leaders experienced last January.