Leadership as "Authenticity"

[fred8033]

8 hours ago, ParkMan said:

This article is all about how a leader relates to those people he or she intends to lead.  Authenticity is a tool to help the leader connect with the people in their team.  Authenticity is not the primary point of being a leader.  The primary point of being a leader is to accomplish things.  Being authentic is simply a technique to help a leader accomplish things more effectively.

Authenticity is a line of research centered around being an effective leader.   And this is far wider than just business circles.  It can be applied 100% to clubs, military and social circles. 

"Primary point of being a leader is to accomplish things."  ... No.  That's one characteristic of leadership.  I can get a huge amount done without anyone helping.  I can get a huge amount of done by bully or dictating.  But many of us would not want to call a bully, a dictator or a guy working by himself a leader. 

Being a leader is about getting people to follow you, setting objectives and having those people work with you to accomplish those goals.  

"Authenticity" is a simple term around a larger academic branch of leadership research that I find fascinating.  I think that line of research would be very useful to teach our scouts leadership. 

Edited October 4, 2020 by fred8033

[ParkMan]

8 hours ago, David CO said:

I do.  We should reject the whole concept of authenticity of leadership in BSA, and issue a disclaimer, much like the television networks do.  The statements expressed are solely the views of the BSA national council, and do not reflect the opinions of your scout leaders or your local Chartered Organization.

 

I think we'd have to explore this more before we attach a disclaimer.  In my decade as a leader, I have never made a statement that I felt was something controlled by the BSA.  I also disagree with the BSA on a regular basis.  I've always felt very comfortable being able to make a distinction between the two.  Even in times when I might make a different rule (wheelbarrows) I have no problems saying "folks, I know that you can use a wheelbarrow at home, brut BSA rules prohibit it." I don't feel that makes me any less authentic as a leader.  

I know we all have different backgrounds and arrive at our roles with different perspectives.  Before I advocated for a disclaimer that assumed leaders cannot be authentic representations of themselves, I'd want to hash out more specifics of how you feel the BSA is controlling your speech and actions.

[ParkMan]

4 hours ago, fred8033 said:

"Primary point of being a leader is to accomplish things."  ... No.  That's one characteristic of leadership.  I can get a huge amount done without anyone helping.  [...]

Being a leader is about getting people to follow you, setting objectives and having those people work with you to accomplish those goals.  

Your definition is better written than mine - but it's what I was thinking.  Let's use yours.

My core point is that authenticity is focused on how to get people to want to follow you.  Authenticity is a very important tool for a leader.  Like any tool, a person has to understand it, master it, and know when to apply it.  It's one of a number of core tools that a leader should be aware of and draw on in their role as a leader. 

I would be careful about your statement:

4 hours ago, fred8033 said:

But many of us would not want to call a bully, a dictator [...] a leader. 

There are indeed times and places where you have to be a bully or a dictator as a leader.  If you look at a number of the most successful leaders in business and there are many times people would call them exactly that.  Being a leader often requires techniques chosen for that specific point in time.  Sometimes you have to push.  Part of being a leader is knowing when to use which technique. 

It's also possible to be both authentic and a dictator/bully.  I'd call that a passionate, visionary leader.  

 

Edited October 5, 2020 by ParkMan
grammer

[David CO]

1 hour ago, ParkMan said:

 

It's also possible to be both authentic and a dictator/bully. 

 

Yep.  If there is any one thing we can glean from history and politics, it's that some people are very authentic as dictators/bullies.  We must always remember that people can be authentically bad or authentically good.  

 

[CynicalScouter]

10 hours ago, ParkMan said:

I also disagree with the BSA on a regular basis.  I've always felt very comfortable being able to make a distinction between the two.  Even in times when I might make a different rule (wheelbarrows) I have no problems saying "folks, I know that you can use a wheelbarrow at home, brut BSA rules prohibit it." I don't feel that makes me any less authentic as a leader.  

Exactly. This is the point I keep trying to make. If you agree to put on a BSA program/charter you agree to abide by their rules. That doesn't mean you agree with their rules but that you acknowledge that BSA's program = BSA's rules.

Quote

I will respect and abide by the Rules and Regulations of the Boy Scouts of America, BSA policies, and BSA-provided training, including but not limited to those relating to:
• Unauthorized fundraising activities
• Advocacy on social and political issues, including prohibited use of the BSA uniform and brand
• Bullying, hazing, harassment, and unlawful discrimination of any kind

What I think is LESS authentic is to say "Sure, this is a BSA program, but we are going to act in direct defiance and open contradiction to BSA rules including the Charter Agreement and the Scouter Code of Conduct both of which obligate Scouters to obey BSA rules."

What kind of message does that send to scouts? A scout is obedient...but scouters can go do whatever they want.

Edited October 5, 2020 by CynicalScouter

[RememberSchiff]

44 minutes ago, CynicalScouter said:

What kind of message does that send to scouts? 

Don't blindly follow? Question authority? Follow your conscience. Make sure your right, then go ahead (Davy Crockett). Accept the consequences on your decisions. That men of good conscience can disagree. Do what is right. Does what The Leader says make sense, if so he/she should be able to explain it. In Cub Scouts we discuss the Christmas Truce of 1914.

IMHO, this is a cornerstone of character building and leadership which we discuss with our scouts. 

Years ago here, scouters argued about the existing BSA rule against raising money for other organizations and National gave the Salvation Army bell-ringing as an example which was likely due to the scouter.com topic.  Yes each Christmas, some scouters and their units Cheerfully disobeyed that rule which was apparently written by those unfamiliar with the Scout Oath - to help others at all times and that Eagle candidates routinely raise money for others to fund their Eagle scout projects. As we know, eventually National quietly removed that rule. 

My $0.02,

Edited October 5, 2020 by RememberSchiff

[David CO]

53 minutes ago, RememberSchiff said:

IMHO, this is a cornerstone of character building and leadership which we discuss with our scouts. 

Exactly.  Our country was designed with a system of checks and balances.  Our forefathers wisely understood that unfettered power leads to tyranny, poverty, and widespread suffering.  This is true even when the leadership appears to have started with good intentions.  The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

I see the BSA/CO relationship as one of checks and balances.  As much as the executives at BSA would like us to think so, it is not the role of the CO to blindly obey BSA.

 

Edited October 5, 2020 by David CO

[CynicalScouter]

53 minutes ago, RememberSchiff said:

Don't blindly follow? Question authority? Follow your conscience. Make sure your right, then go ahead (Davy Crockett). Accept the consequences on your decisions. That men of good conscience can disagree. Do what is right.

A Scout is Obedient. Question the rule? Sure. But violate deliberately? Nope. It is rank hypocrisy to tell scouts they have to obey rules, but Scouters don't.

54 minutes ago, RememberSchiff said:

Years ago here, scouters argued about the existing BSA rule against raising money for other organizations and National gave the Salvation Army bell-ringing as an example which was likely due to the scouter.com topic.  Yes each Christmas, some scouters and their units Cheerfully disobeyed that rule which was apparently written by those unfamiliar with the Scout Oath - to help others at all times and that Eagle candidates routinely raise money for others to fund their Eagle scout projects. As we know, eventually National quietly removed that rule.

Nope. That rule is still very much in effect.

[CynicalScouter]

7 minutes ago, David CO said:

Exactly.  Our country was designed with a system of checks and balances.  Our forefathers wisely understood that unfettered power leads to tyranny, poverty, and widespread suffering.  This is true even when the leadership appears to have started with good intentions.  The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

I see the BSA/CO relationship as one of checks and balances.  As much as the executives at BSA would like us to think so, it is not the role of the CO to blindly obey BSA.

Don't want to follow BSA's rules? Don't join BSA.

BSA is not the government, state or federal. It is a private organization. Don't want to follow that signalization's rules? Don't join or join, try to get the rule changed, but follow until it is. Simple.

Youth protection gets in the way? Discard it?

Guide to Safe Scouting gets in the way. Discard it?

Wow. Just. Wow.

One last point then I am done with this.

Re-read the agreement you sign

Quote

I will respect and abide by the Rules and Regulations of the Boy Scouts of America, BSA policies, and BSA-provided training, including but not limited to those relating to:
• Unauthorized fundraising activities
• Advocacy on social and political issues, including prohibited use of the BSA uniform and brand
• Bullying, hazing, harassment, and unlawful discrimination of any kind

If you cannot honestly sign that, don't join BSA.

Edited October 5, 2020 by CynicalScouter

[RememberSchiff]

10 minutes ago, CynicalScouter said:

A Scout is Obedient. Question the rule? Sure. But violate deliberately? Nope. It is rank hypocrisy to tell scouts they have to obey rules, but Scouters don't.

Nope. That rule is still very much in effect.

2011? I thought it was changed.

Our unit will still ring bell after Thanksgiving, though with covid we will not sing this year.  If being Kind to others makes us DisObedient, IMHO we are better scouts for it.

Another $0.02,

[Eagledad]

51 minutes ago, RememberSchiff said:

Don't blindly follow? Question authority? Follow your conscience. Make sure your right, then go ahead (Davy Crockett). Accept the consequences on your decisions. That men of good conscience can disagree. Do what is right. Does what The Leader says make sense, if so he/she should be able to explain it. In Cub Scouts we discuss the Christmas Truce of 1914.

IMHO, this is a cornerstone of character building and leadership which we discuss with our scouts. 

Years ago here, scouters argued about the existing BSA rule against raising money for other organizations and National gave the Salvation Army bell-ringing as an example which was likely due to the scouter.com topic.  Yes each Christmas, some scouters and their units Cheerfully disobeyed that rule which was apparently written by those unfamiliar with the Scout Oath - to help others at all times and that Eagle candidates routinely raise money for others to fund their Eagle scout projects. As we know, eventually National quietly removed that rule. 

My $0.02,

Yes, but there is a difference between the purpose of  leadership and role modeling in a youth organization. Your examples are a bit extreme in the context of the day to day scouts activities intended to develop long range goals. Of course leaders should make choices bases on the what is best for the group. But, sometimes what is best isn't what is right in building a foundation of habits for total development; like character. The uniform is a very basic, but powerful example of what is best and what is right. If the role model doesn't like the chosen dress for the activity, nothing has to be said, their non direct choice will have a bearing on how the group will consider discipline of making choices. As a leader, uniformity of decisions as a group may start with personal example as a role model.

Authenticity in my mind is action (leadership) with humility. Sometimes the leader makes a wrong decision. Humility maintains group trust. Prideful excuses create doubt that the leader is less concerned about the group than himself.

Barry

[CynicalScouter]

1 minute ago, RememberSchiff said:

2011? I thought it was changed.

Our unit will still ring bell after Thanksgiving, though with covid we will not sing this year.  If being Kind to others makes us DisObedient, IMHO we are better scouts for it.

Another $0.02,

There are 2 version of the Guides to Unit Money-Earning Projects floating. Both have the warning against be soliciting money for another organization (and in particular the Salvation Army’s Christmas Bell Ringing program).

Quote

 

7. Will the fundraising project avoid soliciting money or gifts?

The BSA Rules and Regulations state, “Youth members shall not be permitted to serve as solicitors of money for their chartered organizations, for the local council, or in support of other organizations. Adult and youth members shall not be permitted to serve as solicitors of money in support of personal or unit participation in local, national, or international events.”

For example: Boy Scouts/Cub Scouts and leaders should not identify themselves as Boy Scouts/Cub Scouts or as a troop/pack participate in The Salvation Army’s Christmas Bell Ringing program. This would be raising money for another organization. At no time are units permitted to solicit contributions for unit programs.

 

2007: https://filestore.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/34427.pdf

2011: https://filestore.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/510-274.pdf

And National encourages non-fundraising service opportunities for units with the Salvation Army. http://www.scouting.org/filestore/marketing/pdf/02-776.pdf

So this isn't a question of being "kind". Go out and do service projects for the Salvation Army all you want. You simply cannot solicit money for them via bell ringing as a troop/pack.

 

[RememberSchiff]

24 minutes ago, CynicalScouter said:

So this isn't a question of being "kind". Go out and do service projects for the Salvation Army all you want. You simply cannot solicit money for them via bell ringing as a troop/pack.

Well our troop tradition of ringing the bell will not change, nor our service of helping our CO with their biannual fundraisers. Council is aware and either they or National can decide to drop our charter. 

I think @David CO and @Eagledadmake interesting points which IMHO ties in with the Adult Association Method and my previous comment that men of good conscience can disagree. 

34 minutes ago, Eagledad said:

Yes, but there is a difference between the purpose of  leadership and role modeling in a youth organization. 

 

56 minutes ago, David CO said:

I see the BSA/CO relationship as one of checks and balances.  As much as the executives at BSA would like us to think so, it is not the role of the CO to blindly obey BSA.

Another $0.02,

Edited October 5, 2020 by RememberSchiff

[David CO]

1 hour ago, CynicalScouter said:

If you cannot honestly sign that, don't join BSA.

Knowing my Church as I do, I cannot imagine that they would ever agree to blindly obey any other organization, including BSA.  

I agree that the Catholic Church should not sign the charter agreement.  The language of the charter agreement is an affront to the sovereignty and dignity of the Church.  It is an insult.  It is a slap in the face.  I think we should drop all of our Catholic units.  But that is not my decision to make.  

Edited October 5, 2020 by David CO

[CynicalScouter]

19 minutes ago, David CO said:

 It is an insult.  I think we should drop all of our Catholic units.  But that is not my decision to make.  

It is, however, your decision to participate.

I can't speak for you, but I know I could not

a) sign the adult application in which I "certify" and "affirm" that 

Quote

I agree to comply with the rules and regulations of the BSA and the local council, including the Scouter Code of Conduct

and that Scouter Code of Conduct includes this

Quote

I will respect and abide by the Rules and Regulations of the Boy Scouts of America, BSA policies, and BSA-provided training,

and then

b) immediately turn around and knowingly refuse to "comply with the rules and regulations of the BSA and the local council, including the Scouter Code of Conduct" and knowingly refuse to "respect and abide by the Rules and Regulations of the Boy Scouts of America, BSA policies, and BSA-provided training."

If you are comfortable in signing that you "agree to comply" and "will respect and abide" by the rules knowing that you have no intention to do so, ok for you.

I, however, will stand by my word and signature.

Edited October 5, 2020 by CynicalScouter