CO Child Protection training

[ParkMan]

In my own life, I've stopped thinking of it as the CO owns the unit.  That suggests that the unit is a separate entity from the church - it is not.

I've come to prefer the term "part of".  The unit is a part of the CO.  The unit is simply using the BSA materials as they put on their own program

[qwazse]

5 hours ago, FireStone said:

Follow-up question:

Can a CO require volunteers to sign a document that states that volunteers agree to exhibit Christian ethical standards and conduct themselves in a manner that is consistent with the discipline, norms, and teachings of the Cathollic Church?

I'm struggling with this one and how it potentially impacts volunteers who follow other faiths. Or gay volunteers.

A quick read of the history of the Papacy indicates that you couldn’t stoop that low!

But yes, I have grievances regarding my CO‘s governance ... they border on stark theological differences. Yet, I comport myself as their representative when I’m in uniform. The boys know nothing about my issues I have. Because in spite of its flaws, this CO has put heart and soul into our troop and crew when others who might suit my world view have given scouting lip-service.

They never asked me to sign a document. But I would in a heartbeat. (Actions trump words, etc ...)

 

[T2Eagle]

6 hours ago, Chisos said:

It's probably worth a discussion with the COR to see what they're really expecting.  Are they expecting all leaders to be practicing Catholics?  Or are they expecting that leaders won't go against church teaching in how they interact with youth?  It sounds like a similar expectation to teachers at Catholic schools...you (generally) don't have to be Catholic, but you agree to live/teach in a way the that reflects the beliefs of the church--or at least, not actively oppose them.

 

I am COR of a Pack and Troop sponsored by a Catholic parish.  We have several registered leaders who are not Catholic.  No one expects them to profess Catholic  faith or deny their own.  It's possible your CO has a different expectation but that would be pretty unusual.  

As to the training and document you're being asked to undertake, that is very very common in catholic units.  I'm surprised this is just coming up now, a version of YPT for adults working with kids in Catholic parishes has been as close to a mandate as the structure of the Church allows for almost twenty years now (you may have heard we have our own history of bad actors and actions that needs to be overcome).   What you're being asked to do is what every CYO coach, field trip volunteer, scout leader, etc. is asked to do.  The training is pretty similar to BSA's. 

Take the training, sign the form if it doesn't conflict with your conscience, you won't see any change in your relationship with the unit or CO, and you probably won't hear any more about it until it's time to renew in a few years.  

[David CO]

6 hours ago, ParkMan said:

In my own life, I've stopped thinking of it as the CO owns the unit.  That suggests that the unit is a separate entity from the church - it is not.

I've come to prefer the term "part of".  The unit is a part of the CO.  The unit is simply using the BSA materials as they put on their own program

I can live with that...so long as we agree that BSA doesn't own the unit.

 

[ParkMan]

4 minutes ago, David CO said:

I can live with that...so long as we agree that BSA doesn't own the unit.

 

Right.  As I see it, and the BSA materials describe, the unit is just another program of the CO.  The BSA cannot own it any more than it can own a sunday school class.  The BSA can come along and say - stop using our materials or can prevent certain adults from being volunteers because it controls who can use the materials.  But it certainly doesn't own the unit.

[CynicalScouter]

6 hours ago, David CO said:

so long as we agree that BSA doesn't own the unit.

BSA doesn't own the unit. But the unit is required under the terms of the charter agreement to abide by BSA's rules.

Quote

The Chartered Organization agrees to...Conduct the Scouting program consistent with BSA rules, regulations, and policies.

 

[carebear3895]

1 hour ago, CynicalScouter said:

BSA doesn't own the unit. But the unit is required under the terms of the charter agreement to abide by BSA's rules.

 

Correct. Per the Annual Charter Agreement. 

[David CO]

This topic is about the CO's rules and procedures.  It's not about BSA rules or the charter agreement.  

[CynicalScouter]

9 minutes ago, David CO said:

This topic is about the CO's rules and procedures.  It's not about BSA rules or the charter agreement.  

The point is that the CO's rules and procedures cannot directly contradict BSA's rules or the charter agreement.

A CO that imposes a rule that they will not allow African American scouts or scouters would be in direct conflict with BSA's rules and the charter agreement.

A CO that demands scouts fundraise in the name of the CO would be in direct conflict with BSA's rules and the charter agreement.

There are limits to what the CO can do and still maintain an BSA unit.

Edited October 2, 2020 by CynicalScouter

[qwazse]

1 hour ago, CynicalScouter said:

The point is that the CO's rules and procedures cannot directly contradict BSA's rules or the charter agreement.

A CO that imposes a rule that they will not allow African American scouts or scouters would be in direct conflict with BSA's rules and the charter agreement.

A CO that demands scouts fundraise in the name of the CO would be in direct conflict with BSA's rules and the charter agreement.

There are limits to what the CO can do and still maintain an BSA unit.

Those limits are quite narrow and often self-selecting. For example, a church that welcomes atheists to participate in its programs might be less likely to agree to a BSA charter by virtue of its Declaration of Religious Principle. A troop whose CO demands scouts contribute monetarily to the CO would likely find a different CO.

Whereas what the CO must use scouting for is quite broad:

Quote

Chartered organizations must utilize the Scouting program to accomplish specific objectives related to one or more of the following:

• Youth character development
• Career skill development
• Community service
• Patriotism and military and veteran recognition
• Faith-based youth ministry

One should expect specific challenges if the CO is using scouting primarily for faith-based youth ministry. One should expect different challenges if the CO is using scouting primarily for patriotism and military and veteran recognition.

[CynicalScouter]

11 minutes ago, qwazse said:

Those limits are quite narrow and often self-selecting.

Sometimes. I also think/know/have seen times when the CO believes that the BSA rules that get in their way just shouldn't be followed.

I had one Scoutmaster, with the CO present and nodding his head, tell me that because it is the "Guides" to Fundraising (he meant Guides to Unit Money-Earning Projects) that they are just "guides" and therefore not enforceable.

Ditto "Guide" to Safe Scouting.

On occasion the CO just simply looks at the program as "theirs" and therefore "theirs" to do with what they want.

EDIT: And we've even seen people in this discussion forum hold forth the view that since the unit is "owned" by the CO, not BSA, then BSA's rules can be ignored.

Edited October 2, 2020 by CynicalScouter

[FireStone]

On 10/1/2020 at 2:07 PM, CynicalScouter said:

Some Catholic Dioceses or individual churches, for example, will require Virtus in addition to YPT.
 

For anyone familiar with Virtus, do you know if there is an online course option? The CO is saying we all have to take the course in-person.

[CynicalScouter]

12 minutes ago, FireStone said:

For anyone familiar with Virtus, do you know if there is an online course option? The CO is saying we all have to take the course in-person.

No for initial training. Has to be in person. HOWEVER since COVID, they will do Zoom (at least they will in my diocese). I also just checked and some are doing WebEx.

For locations https://www.virtusonline.org/virtus/reg_list.cfm?theme=0

For re-certification, yes you can do it online.

My advice: if your diocese does NOT do Zoom or WebEx, see if you can register to take it in a Zoom or WebEx diocese. Since it is national-certified training, valid is valid.

Edited October 2, 2020 by CynicalScouter

[carebear3895]

4 hours ago, David CO said:

This topic is about the CO's rules and procedures.  It's not about BSA rules or the charter agreement.  

lol

[walk in the woods]

8 hours ago, CynicalScouter said:

BSA doesn't own the unit. But the unit is required under the terms of the charter agreement to abide by BSA's rules.

 

So 3 random thoughts:

1. The charter agreement used to say the council would send a representative to discuss and sign the agreement with the IH.  I never once saw that happen in 15 years of charter/recharter efforts.  People treated it according to the importance so assigned.

2. I don't recall anything in the agreement that prevents a CO from placing additional requirements on leader training.

3. The CO selects and approves leaders for their units.  I seem to recall during the membership changes the BSA specifically said COs had full control of leader selection.  Has that changed?

So my suggestion is take the training and sign the form if your conscious allows.  If not, respectfully decline and find a different unit to serve.  No drama required.