New Council Fee

[TAHAWK]

4 minutes ago, ParkMan said:

That's unfortunate.  

The Scouting world has such a weird dynamic to it.  Professionals, council boards, council volunteers vs. district volunteers vs. unit volunteers.  For a movement that is all about developing leaders, we seem to know so little about how to develop leadership in adult volunteers.  It's very strange.

BSA often does not follow what they teach about leadership or values.  

[ParkMan]

1 hour ago, Sentinel947 said:

De facto vs de jure. De facto discrimination is alive and well. De jure discrimination is mostly gone, although there are some places where laws are passed because they disproportionately effect people in one group or another. Discrimination today is typically much more subtle and less overt than in the 1960's, making it easier for people to pretend it doesn't exist. 

I struggle though with how to reconcile the gains and successes we've had as a country in the last 50 years.  Even in my lifetime, I see a noticeable difference in the amount of racism and increase in the amount of equality in our social structures.  I applaud that we continue to focus on rooting out discrimination and racism.

Yet, to listen to my teenage kids talk, our country is an awful place full of racists.

I don't know how to communicate to my kids with any credibility that we've come so far as a country from what it was 50, 100, or more years ago.

[TAHAWK]

Passing judgment when ignorant of the facts is simple.  Those who know the facts find it harder to judge.

[walk in the woods]

On 9/19/2020 at 7:09 PM, ParkMan said:

I struggle though with how to reconcile the gains and successes we've had as a country in the last 50 years.  Even in my lifetime, I see a noticeable difference in the amount of racism and increase in the amount of equality in our social structures.  I applaud that we continue to focus on rooting out discrimination and racism.

Yet, to listen to my teenage kids talk, our country is an awful place full of racists.

I don't know how to communicate to my kids with any credibility that we've come so far as a country from what it was 50, 100, or more years ago.

That's the beauty of postmodern philosophy invading every aspect of culture, media, and education.  There are no objective truths, there are no facts outside of their interpretation by the receiver, there is no objective reality.  Your personal feelings are as good as actual facts, because, facts are filtered by the power structure. 

Your kids believe America is an awful place because some teacher, media person, pop culture personality told them so.  The personal also told them that any "facts" that contradict that feeling are racist because facts are a tool of the oppressor class.  This creates an unfalsifiable premise because anything that contradicts the premise is deemed racist (or sexist or homophobic or islamaphobic or genderphobic or whatever the case may be).  When confronted with actual facts or data, the postmodern simply has to say "I don't feel like that's true" and the debate is over.

https://www.britannica.com/topic/postmodernism-philosophy

https://areomagazine.com/2017/03/27/how-french-intellectuals-ruined-the-west-postmodernism-and-its-impact-explained/

 

[PACAN]

So now that recharter season is essentially over, how many of you have a council fee added to each scout/adult and if so, how much.

[CynicalScouter]

Tidewater Council: $24 per person. This is down from $42 thanks to a strong FOS showing in 2020.

http://tidewaterbsa.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/09/Bayside-2021-Recharter-Process-Flyer.pdf

Colonial Virginia Council: $12 per person

https://www.cvcboyscouts.org/bsacvc-membership-fees.html

Heart of Virginia Council: $10 per person

https://hovc.org/2020recharter/

National Capital Area Council: $0

https://www.ncacbsa.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/09/2021-Charter-Renewal-Handbook-Final.pdf

Virginia Headwaters Council:

Council Youth Program Fee: $22
Council Adult Program Fee: $15
Insurance (Youth, Tiger/Lion adult partners and leaders): $12

https://www.vahcbsa.org/files/34609/2020-2021-Recharter-Fees

Cape Fear Council: $3 per person

https://www.capefearcouncilbsa.org/resources/recharter-online/

Central North Carolina Council:

$16 Insurance Fee

$18 Activity Fee

http://www.centralnccouncilbsa.com/about-us/2021-fee-structure-/73334

Edited January 11, 2021 by CynicalScouter

[InquisitiveScouter]

Ours,

National fee $66 plus council fee $60 (service $48 plus insurance $12) = $126 total for youth.

National $42 plus $5 council (insurance) = $47 for adults.

Does not include the $25 first time fee for youth...

Our troop dues, $49...so Scouts in our unit paid $175 to recharter for the year....not including Scout Life.

I will remain council-anonymous

[Cburkhardt]

I think council fees are the best way for the future in lieu of FOS and product sales.  Please hear me out on this.

Our Troop approach is to ask families to pay all-in semester dues (this includes everything except campout and summer camp fees) and contribute to our annual coffee fundraising gathering at whatever level they can.  We get family contributions ranging from $20 to $500 at that event, and outsiders contribute as well.  Under-resourced families pay 50% dues and 50% camping fees (some get more) and this is supported from our event proceeds.

Our December fundraiser raised enough so we gave $1,500 to our council as a unit FOS contribution.  We had an additional $1,500 individual FOS contributions from people affiliated with our unit who replied directly to the annual council mailing.  We do not push individual family contributions to FOS, because we only want to ask families to pay our dues and participate in our single annual event.  

So, our unit-wide FOS total gift was about 3K for 2020, which works out to be about $75 per youth member (up from $62 last year).  Because we are inner-city, we don't do product sales with the council or other things that raise money for them.  However, we get a lot of services and benefits from our district and council and believe our FOS contributions are merited and well-used.  If our council were to prefer a fee instead of FOS we would be neutral.  We would still give at our current level to support our camp and help provide council/district services. 

A council fee to replace FOS/popcorn proceedings would be a more efficient way to raise funds and take less professional and volunteer effort.  It would be a wash for us, but would assure that all units contribute.

 

[qwazse]

1 hour ago, Cburkhardt said:

I think council fees are the best way for the future in lieu of FOS and product sales.  Please hear me out on this.

Our Troop approach is to ask families to pay all-in semester dues (this includes everything except campout and summer camp fees) and contribute to our annual coffee fundraising gathering at whatever level they can.  We get family contributions ranging from $20 to $500 at that event, and outsiders contribute as well.  Under-resourced families pay 50% dues and 50% camping fees (some get more) and this is supported from our event proceeds.

Our December fundraiser raised enough so we gave $1,500 to our council as a unit FOS contribution.  We had an additional $1,500 individual FOS contributions from people affiliated with our unit who replied directly to the annual council mailing.  We do not push individual family contributions to FOS, because we only want to ask families to pay our dues and participate in our single annual event.  

So, our unit-wide FOS total gift was about 3K for 2020, which works out to be about $75 per youth member (up from $62 last year).  Because we are inner-city, we don't do product sales with the council or other things that raise money for them.  However, we get a lot of services and benefits from our district and council and believe our FOS contributions are merited and well-used.  If our council were to prefer a fee instead of FOS we would be neutral.  We would still give at our current level to support our camp and help provide council/district services. 

A council fee to replace FOS/popcorn proceedings would be a more efficient way to raise funds and take less professional and volunteer effort.  It would be a wash for us, but would assure that all units contribute.

 

So, here's the advantage of a Unit-collection:

Volunteer labor spent presenting (and, from your parents' perspective, listening to) FOS presentations. As you mention, those costs are not trivial.

Here's the disadvantage:

Youth labor spent raising funds for other troops. The whole point of FOS is supposedly to provide facilities and camperships to scouts who couldn't otherwise afford them.

It's one thing if your youth want to do that. (GS/USA youth seem to be quite proud that their cookie sales do such things.) But perhaps your youth have other charities for whom they want to raise funds . Your council (and, in turn, those other troops) will want its cut first.

The disadvantage to council:

Collection from willing individuals once they have left scouting. A lot of our folks who pledged at FOS presentations, kept doing so for decades.

[CynicalScouter]

54 minutes ago, qwazse said:

Youth labor spent raising funds for other troops. The whole point of FOS is supposedly to provide facilities and camperships to scouts who couldn't otherwise afford them.

Depends on the council. For councils that do not have facilities and camps (mine doesn't) FOS is for basic council operations.

[InquisitiveScouter]

FOS = Fund Our Salaries??

[yknot]

2 hours ago, Cburkhardt said:

I think council fees are the best way for the future in lieu of FOS and product sales.  Please hear me out on this.

Our Troop approach is to ask families to pay all-in semester dues (this includes everything except campout and summer camp fees) and contribute to our annual coffee fundraising gathering at whatever level they can.  We get family contributions ranging from $20 to $500 at that event, and outsiders contribute as well.  Under-resourced families pay 50% dues and 50% camping fees (some get more) and this is supported from our event proceeds.

Our December fundraiser raised enough so we gave $1,500 to our council as a unit FOS contribution.  We had an additional $1,500 individual FOS contributions from people affiliated with our unit who replied directly to the annual council mailing.  We do not push individual family contributions to FOS, because we only want to ask families to pay our dues and participate in our single annual event.  

So, our unit-wide FOS total gift was about 3K for 2020, which works out to be about $75 per youth member (up from $62 last year).  Because we are inner-city, we don't do product sales with the council or other things that raise money for them.  However, we get a lot of services and benefits from our district and council and believe our FOS contributions are merited and well-used.  If our council were to prefer a fee instead of FOS we would be neutral.  We would still give at our current level to support our camp and help provide council/district services. 

A council fee to replace FOS/popcorn proceedings would be a more efficient way to raise funds and take less professional and volunteer effort.  It would be a wash for us, but would assure that all units contribute.

 

I think Council fees should replace FOS for current registrants. I think an FOS appeal could still be targeted to alumni if a Council has its records in order. I am concerned though that the Council fee might just become another bucket you are expected to pay into.  Our Council instituted the maximum Council fee this year. We still had a pitch for FOS. We were still asked, though not required, to participate in popcorn sales. We had additional pitches for a Covid relief fund. Granted there was no hard sell for any of these things other than the new Council fee, but it has been a constant ask. One thing about instituting a Council fee instead of FOS is that I think you lose corporate matching funds for those who have that benefit.
 

 

[Cburkhardt]

1 hour ago, yknot said:

We still had a pitch for FOS. We were still asked, though not required, to participate in popcorn sales.

We will do our once-a-year contribution that I described, and that is it.  If we paid an annual fee that was particularly low (like the $3 one some council charges -- I mean, what is the point of that?), I would make sure it was supplemented with a unit FOS gift to provide a reasonable level of support -- after all, we do need to maintain things at the camp and in basic operations.   I just think the old ways of funding the council through multiple asks and inefficient product sales will fade away.  Wrap it into a reasonable all-in fee that is transparently explained and be done with all the running around.  Let the pros, and Scouts concentrate on program.

 

[RememberSchiff]

28 minutes ago, Cburkhardt said:

...Wrap it into a reasonable all-in fee that is transparently explained and be done with all the running around.  Let the pros, and Scouts concentrate on program.

 

IMHO, let's discuss the new transparent explanation of proposed Council spending and how it is approved before discussing any new means of funding it.

Edited January 13, 2021 by RememberSchiff

[ParkMan]

Let's take a look at some numbers.  I pulled Orange County CA's website and 990 and took a look.  According to their website, they serve 20,000 youth members.  From their 990 in 2018, they had expenses of $11.8 million dollars.

Of that $11.8 million, they spend:

• $4.8 million in salaries
• $1.1 million in payroll taxes and benefits
• $1.1 million in depreciation/amortization
• $1.2 million in occupancy
• $879K in office expenses
• $299K in staff travel
• $272K in insurance
• $270K in interest on loans
• $1.9 million in a variety of other expenses

For income, they had $10.2 million.  It came primary from:

• $3.6 million from contributions and grants
• $5.2 million from program income
• $500K from investment income
• $600K from inventory income (not sure what this is)
• $400K in miscellaneous income.

I too think that a program fee is the direction councils need to move in.  I look at these numbers and am struck by how little though the program fees move the needle.  At a $60 fee per youth, that amounts to about 10% of their total budget.  Councils will still have to obtain the bulk of their revenue in other ways.