New Council Fee

[5thGenTexan]

7 minutes ago, InquisitiveScouter said:

5thGen...is that an eye-opener for you?

 

If the figure on that site are accurate, I am not sure I have an issue with the SE salary being 2% of the entire expenses.  Another chart shows that 88.5% of the expenses are going to program.  We have 4 really nice Council camps.  Our UoS program is held on the SMU campus and its a good event in the past we could have it.  

 

At the end of the day I don't have too many issues with Circle Ten, and I am not sure that salary for the size of our Council is unreasonable.

[ParkMan]

35 minutes ago, David CO said:

Only the wealthy volunteers.

Respectfully, but that's not true at all in our council.

There's a bunch of folks on our board who do donor stuff.  They tend to be wealthy business types - but that largely is because they are the ones comfortable and capable of developing big donations.

There are a bunch of folks on our board who do program stuff.  They tend to be volunteers who worked their way up.  The VP of program types or prior District Chairs.  Most of these folks are accomplished enough, but they are not wealthy.  The didn't get these roles because of money, but because they could go into a room of Scouters and get them organized and deliver results.  Council boards need more of these people - but they are rare and usually are not interested in that level of involvement.

 

[David CO]

44 minutes ago, InquisitiveScouter said:

...who give big bucks to the council.  How much does an Execurive Board position cost in your council?

There is no published price, of course.  I've been told the price for a seat on the board starts at around $10,000.  I'm not sure if that is a one-time gift or an annual donation.  Either way, it is way beyond my means.

 

Edited September 15, 2020 by David CO

[ParkMan]

51 minutes ago, InquisitiveScouter said:

...who give big bucks to the council.  How much does an Execurive Board position cost in your council?

As mentioned in another post - people who are not on the Executive Board tend to have that perception.  But, in reality, I've seen that many Executive Board members are there through dedication to the organization.  In that time, they build networks within the council board that eventually leads to senior council board positions.  Some do this through the ability to generate donations for the council, others through being able to deliver results and have impact within the council.

I like to remember that whatever the group you're in, the people there need to like each other and be able to work together to accomplish something.  It's true of a troop, it's true of a council board.

[Jameson76]

1 hour ago, 5thGenTexan said:

Circle Ten

https://www.charitynavigator.org/index.cfm?bay=search.summary&orgid=8221

Peanuts

Atlanta Area Council SE base salary is close to $500,000.  Top Five folks in the staff of + 70 combined make over $1,000,000.  When you add in benefits, bonuses, etc the total for those 5 is closer to $2,000,000.

Nice work if you can get it I guess

 

[David CO]

1 hour ago, Jameson76 said:

Atlanta Area Council SE base salary is close to $500,000.  Top Five folks in the staff of + 70 combined make over $1,000,000.  When you add in benefits, bonuses, etc the total for those 5 is closer to $2,000,000.

Nice work if you can get it I guess

Only for the sort of guy who thinks that profiteering off of kids is nice work.

 

[ParkMan]

1 hour ago, Jameson76 said:

Peanuts

Atlanta Area Council SE base salary is close to $500,000.  Top Five folks in the staff of + 70 combined make over $1,000,000.  When you add in benefits, bonuses, etc the total for those 5 is closer to $2,000,000.

Nice work if you can get it I guess

 

NCAC:

Compensation of Leaders     (FYE 12/2018)

Compensation	% of Expenses	Paid to	Title
$690,326	6.16%	Les Baron	CEO

[MattR]

1 hour ago, ParkMan said:

I think it's easy to assume it's all about the money - but I think it's a lot more complicated than that.  Many who get involved in Scouting do so to have a great Scouting experience - not run a charity.  Again, I think we just need to reconcile that as a movement.  Are we a charity or are we not?

You're right that the BSA is not a charity, and yet it still needs donations to operate. That's a conflict that I can't see ending well. Fewer donations and fewer volunteers will lead to councils having to charge more than their current costs of $500-$1000/scout/year. This will be a very "elite" organization. For me, I can't volunteer for an organization that isn't set up to take everyone. It's why I'm starting to volunteer at my son's old middle school. Besides, what does it say of the aims regarding citizenship if not all citizens can afford the program?

If the BSA had the mindset that they were going to take all kids then they would not be in the financial situation they find themselves.Rather than a hammer looking for nails mindset it would require more asking and listening. Personally, I think it would be much stronger and attract a lot more kids.

But I'm mostly just a clueless old SM with fond memories of watching a lot of kids have fun and grow up.

[TAHAWK]

10 hours ago, walk in the woods said:

Not to defend National too much, but, they've made several attempts to reach underserved youth.  That was part of the thrust of the ISP.  Learning for Life, Scoutreach, Scouting and Soccer, generally fall into that category.  They may be bad at it, but, they've certainly tried.

 

3 hours ago, MattR said:

You're right that the BSA is not a charity, and yet it still needs donations to operate. That's a conflict that I can't see ending well. Fewer donations and fewer volunteers will lead to councils having to charge more than their current costs of $500-$1000/scout/year. This will be a very "elite" organization. For me, I can't volunteer for an organization that isn't set up to take everyone. It's why I'm starting to volunteer at my son's old middle school. Besides, what does it say of the aims regarding citizenship if not all citizens can afford the program?

If the BSA had the mindset that they were going to take all kids then they would not be in the financial situation they find themselves.Rather than a hammer looking for nails mindset it would require more asking and listening. Personally, I think it would be much stronger and attract a lot more kids.

But I'm mostly just a clueless old SM with fond memories of watching a lot of kids have fun and grow up.

The Boy Scouts of America,  EIN  22-1576300,  is legally classified by the Internal Revenue Service of The U.S. Treasury Department as a  "Charitable Organization" under Section 501(c)(3) of the Internal Revenue Code.  Accordingly, all donations to BSA are includable in "itemized deductions." by any itemizing taxpayer.  The most recent Revenue Ruling to that effect was in November 1965, and its charity status has not been challenged by the Service.

Edited September 16, 2020 by TAHAWK

[ParkMan]

19 minutes ago, TAHAWK said:

The Boy Scouts of America,  EIN  22-1576300,  is legally classified by the Internal Revenue Service of The U.S. Treasury Department as a  "Charitable Organization" under Section 501(c)(3) of the Internal Revenue Code.  Accordingly, all donations to BSA are includable in "itemized deductions." by any itemizing taxpayer.  The most recent Revenue Ruling to that effect was in November 1965, and its charity status has not been challenged by the Service.

Let me clarify what I meant.

The the BSA is technically a charitable organization (a charity).  If one looks at the programs of the BSA, there are indeed attempts to provide Scouting to kids from families with limited incomes.  I know that in our council (which does charge fees), there are indeed programs to waive the fees for those that cannot afford them.

There are lots of charities out there that are targeted primarily at helping people with limited means.  Habitat for Humanity for example builds homes for people who cannot afford to buy one.  Scouting is just focused on working with kids regardless of income.  It's a subtle difference, but one that means that it is not always going to be inexpensive.  

My point on the fees is that the BSA could decide to focus on kids with limited means.  If they did, they'd need a different fee structure.  You cannot expect a family with little money struggling to make ends meet to start spending 40 or 50 dollars a month on Scouting.  As the BSA keep piling on fees they need to be cognisant of that.

I wish the BSA was more proactive in that regard, but they struggle to go beyond saying - "we have scholarships."  Again, I simply don't think the BSA professionals understand a path to grow Scouting in economically challenged areas. I'm sure there are many that would like to - I just don't think they know how.

[CynicalScouter]

17 hours ago, InquisitiveScouter said:

If you dared, you could ask your council office for their current IRS 990, which they are required, by law, to provide to the public upon request.

The current (meaning last fiscal year) can usually be found online. No need to poke the bear

While 990s are due May 15 of the following year (e.g. 2019 was due May 15, 2020) almost every not-profit, including Councils, I know takes advantage of the automatic (on request) 6 month deferral until November 15.

The real challenge is when you ask for financial statements. 990s tell you broad categories. Asking where particular funds went/are going is a whole other matter. Asking for THAT gets you the scout executive and/or boards ire.

 

Edited September 16, 2020 by CynicalScouter

[CynicalScouter]

14 hours ago, David CO said:

If that is the case, BSA should lose its tax exemption.  

Keep in mind, tax exemption for IRS purposes covers a broad array of activities that do not have to be 100% what we think of as charities.

For example, Boy Scouts of America as an organization chartered by Congress would qualify for tax exempt status as a 501(c)(1) even if 501(c)(3) was repealed tomorrow while the local councils are 501(c)(3).

Want to complain that 501(c)(3) is too broad and covers too much? Take that up with Congress, not the BSA.

Edited September 16, 2020 by CynicalScouter

[elitts]

18 hours ago, InquisitiveScouter said:

...who give big bucks to the council.  How much does an Execurive Board position cost in your council?

I do have to say here that the crudely phrased "Seat for sale" concept is going to be true in just about any non-profit Board of Directors.  Not so much because someone willing to donate 10k or 20k is really that big a value to the organization, but because anyone able and willing to cough up that much money will probably know plenty of other people who can also cough up that much money.

Most Boards of Directors will have a certain number of seats that can be used for members that may not be "workers" but who provide special access or connections the organization finds valuable.

[Eagle94-A1]

6 minutes ago, elitts said:

Most Boards of Directors will have a certain number of seats that can be used for members that may not be "workers" but who provide special access or connections the organization finds valuable.

I think it varies from council to council. The only folks given a seat without a donation is the OA Lodge Chief, and when we have one, the VOA president. 

And of course the CORs, if they even know they have a seat, which in my neck of the woods they tend not to know.

Grant you some of the folks are "worker bees," but there is a minimum $ donation.

[ParkMan]

2 hours ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

I think it varies from council to council. The only folks given a seat without a donation is the OA Lodge Chief, and when we have one, the VOA president. 

And of course the CORs, if they even know they have a seat, which in my neck of the woods they tend not to know.

Grant you some of the folks are "worker bees," but there is a minimum $ donation.

I think you're right that this is a council to council decision.  In ours, there is no minimum price.  Membership is by your ability to have an impact.

@Eagle94-A1 - I think you must be a member in a really poorly run council.  District Executives that are running around unchecked, District Committees with no power or leadership, a council board which is all about how much money you donate.  I suspect there is a pattern emerging in your council's governance.  Fortunately, this is not a universal truth across Scouting.

Edited September 16, 2020 by ParkMan
expanded the thought