New Council Fee

[walk in the woods]

2 hours ago, ParkMan said:

Fascinating - thank you.  It sure looks like the BSA has been taking on a lot of debt for some reason - the Summit I imagine. 

I doubt Summit expenses would be listed with Accounts Payable.  Aren't Accrued Liabilities typically the cost of services rendered but no invoice has been received?  I'm guessing Law Firm Fees and the like.

[qwazse]

2 hours ago, ParkMan said:

... $15 or $20 a month for dues isn't a lot of money to some, ...

Don't know about where you live, but eight buddies pitching in $15 can get a kid to some very sweet campsites in Western, PA. That includes filling their bellies with some quality ingredients -- possibly fresh eggs and milk if you're willing to pitch in and help the farmer/ranger with a project or two.

So, the calculus has become: pay BSA registration vs. go camping once a month.

I am honestly astounded that the parents in my troop think it's worth the price of admission.

[yknot]

It is doubtful that there is any scenario under which fees will decrease. It's very possible that they may increase again. 

[CynicalScouter]

33 minutes ago, qwazse said:

I am honestly astounded that the parents in my troop think it's worth the price of admission.

Still get a ton of "son (now daughter) has to make Eagle to get into college/good career".

They are buying a credential and dragging the kids along for the ride.

[Sentinel947]

34 minutes ago, qwazse said:

Don't know about where you live, but eight buddies pitching in $15 can get a kid to some very sweet campsites in Western, PA. That includes filling their bellies with some quality ingredients -- possibly fresh eggs and milk if you're willing to pitch in and help the farmer/ranger with a project or two.

So, the calculus has become: pay BSA registration vs. go camping once a month.

I am honestly astounded that the parents in my troop think it's worth the price of admission.

I mean, yea. I paid $17.5 for one night at Pickett State park in Tennessee, + $5 for a backcountry permit in the Big South Fork National Park. Overall it was $21.50 for 4 people for 4 nights. 

Monthly BSA dues are starting to become as expensive as the outing itself. 

[CynicalScouter]

9 minutes ago, yknot said:

It is doubtful that there is any scenario under which fees will decrease. It's very possible that they may increase again. 

My understanding was that when it went from $60 to $66 national was also prepared to announce two more years increases ($66 to $72 and $72 to $75) in the upcoming years with the promise of freezing in place at $75 after 2022.

So sayeth Middle Tennessee Council https://mtcbsa.doubleknot.com/CMS/PageViewer.aspx?PageID=19549&preview=yes
 

Quote

Last week, the Boy Scouts of America announced that the annual membership fee for youth and young adult participants will increase from $60 to $66 effective August 1, 2020. There will also be a onetime BSA joining fee for new members of $25. If a Scout has been registered in the last five years, BSA will not charge the new member fee. In addition, BSA plans to increase the membership fee to $72 on August 1, 2021, and to $75 on August 1, 2022. No fee increases are planned past 2022. None of the membership fee charged by the BSA stays in the Middle Tennessee Council, all the fee is sent to the BSA. The BSA membership fee changes can be found below.

You have a dwindling membership base and an expensive infrastructure PLUS massive insurance premium jumps AND a potential billion dollar settlement in the offing.

You either keep jacking up fees (which further reduces membership, resulting in a death spiral) or close up shop and convert your bankruptcy into a liquidation/fire sale.

Edited September 14, 2020 by CynicalScouter

[David CO]

41 minutes ago, qwazse said:

I am honestly astounded that the parents in my troop think it's worth the price of admission.

The higher the price of admission becomes, the less likely it is that boys will learn personal responsibility and self-reliance by paying their own way.  I would be astonished if any of the boys in my unit would think it's worth it.  Not if they're paying for it.

 

Edited September 14, 2020 by David CO

[yknot]

5 minutes ago, CynicalScouter said:

My understanding was that when it went from $60 to $66 national was also prepared to announce two more years increases ($66 to $72 and $72 to $75) in the upcoming years with the promise of freezing in place at $75 after 2022.

So sayeth Middle Tennessee Council https://mtcbsa.doubleknot.com/CMS/PageViewer.aspx?PageID=19549&preview=yes
 

 

I've seen that too. And Council fees can increase proportionally to match. However, those fee projections predate Covid and its effects on retention, recruitment and membership as well as its impact on drawing out the bankruptcy case which will likely also increase legal fees.  Not to mention unit fundraising which in some places has been seriously curtailed and will have an impact on local dues. There are many unit expenses that also need to be accounted for. It's not a good situation. 

[5thGenTexan]

Apparently it was a mistake and should not have been included in our recharter letter.  I understand its just for Scoutreach Units.

[Eagle94-A1]

50 minutes ago, CynicalScouter said:

My understanding was that when it went from $60 to $66 national was also prepared to announce two more years increases ($66 to $72 and $72 to $75) in the upcoming years with the promise of freezing in place at $75 after 2022.

So sayeth Middle Tennessee Council https://mtcbsa.doubleknot.com/CMS/PageViewer.aspx?PageID=19549&preview=yes

I was told that info was not supposed to be made public until closer to those dates. But I guess enough people found out, and that council decided o take the bull by the horns.

Glad oldest turns 18 next year and will be an adult, so I get break in fees. That is if he continues past 18. 

[ParkMan]

5 hours ago, qwazse said:

Don't know about where you live, but eight buddies pitching in $15 can get a kid to some very sweet campsites in Western, PA. That includes filling their bellies with some quality ingredients -- possibly fresh eggs and milk if you're willing to pitch in and help the farmer/ranger with a project or two.

So, the calculus has become: pay BSA registration vs. go camping once a month.

I am honestly astounded that the parents in my troop think it's worth the price of admission.

We're talking different things here.

I started my comments in this thread saying that national needs to reduce fees.  I believe that $15-$20 a month for dues is too much - but mostly because there are many people we try to bring into the program who don't have the disposable income that others do. 

But, I think we have to be careful to not say it simply too expensive because in 2020 in the US, $15-$20 a month is pretty cheap compared to much of what we spend money on.  $15 to $20 a month is a bargain to some, to others a fortune. When we decry Scouting as simply too expense, we run the risk of loosing credibility because many people involved in the program do not believe it is.

I make no light of the expense here.  Scouting from the BSA is quickly becoming a middle class (if not upper middle class) activity.  

Edited September 14, 2020 by ParkMan
expanded the thought

[yknot]

54 minutes ago, ParkMan said:

We're talking different things here.

I started my comments in this thread saying that national needs to reduce fees.  I believe that $15-$20 a month for dues is too much - but mostly because there are many people we try to bring into the program who don't have the disposable income that others do. 

But, I think we have to be careful to not say it simply too expensive because in 2020 in the US, $15-$20 a month is pretty cheap compared to much of what we spend money on.  $15 to $20 a month is a bargain to some, to others a fortune. When we decry Scouting as simply too expense, we run the risk of loosing credibility because many people involved in the program do not believe it is.

I make no light of the expense here.  Scouting from the BSA is quickly becoming a middle class (if not upper middle class) activity.  

The issue is not the monthly expense it is the perceived value. BSA does a terrible job of promoting value. It's marketing for the past few decades has relied on Eagle Scout but that does not appeal to the broadest cross section. It should be focusing on outdoors. 

[David CO]

3 hours ago, yknot said:

The issue is not the monthly expense it is the perceived value. 

No, I think it really is the expense.  1 out of 7 kids are raised in low income families on food stamps.  Poverty is a real thing.  

[5thGenTexan]

I was a Cub Scout and Boy Scout in the 80s.  I am entering my 4th year as an Adult leader.  I am pretty active outside of my Unit in that I know leaders from other Units, I know the DE, I am getting pretty familiar with the people in the Council office.  I can tell you exactly what our Pack dues will get you.  I am not sure I can sit down with a new parent and explain what the fees that go to National are used for.  As a parent, I am not sure what I send to National has any value.  

[yknot]

1 hour ago, David CO said:

No, I think it really is the expense.  1 out of 7 kids are raised in low income families on food stamps.  Poverty is a real thing.  

How many of those kids realistically have ever been part of the scouting universe from the National perspective? A tragic mistake, because if scouting was living up to its own values, those kids would have been the target audience. But the corporate marketing reality is that they are not and never have been the goal. The market at least in recent decades has been families that want their kids to get to Eagle and are able to spend on on all the uniform and advancement permutations along the way.