OLDRIFLE Posted August 29, 2020 Share Posted August 29, 2020 We have several issues with the scoutmaster not following the BSA advancement rules. Who should I turn to when everyone in the K3 is OK with that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattR Posted August 29, 2020 Share Posted August 29, 2020 Welcome to the forum, @OLDRIFLE. That's a really tough question. You can ask your District Executive or your chartered org rep. I hate to say this but you can also look for another troop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CynicalScouter Posted August 29, 2020 Share Posted August 29, 2020 45 minutes ago, OLDRIFLE said: We have several issues with the scoutmaster not following the BSA advancement rules. Who should I turn to when everyone in the K3 is OK with that? What specifically are they violating? Adding? Subtracting? Etc. Since you indicate that the Key-3 are "OK with that", then depending on the advancement rule the answer is going to either by the district executive or council advancement (or both). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwazse Posted August 29, 2020 Share Posted August 29, 2020 Your district and/or council advancement chairperson would be the next person to talk to. If this involves applying for Eagle there are formal procedures if the troop is denying the scout a board of review. The other issues will involve polite conversations with your troop’s key 3. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSScout Posted August 31, 2020 Share Posted August 31, 2020 ""If possible"" . . . Keep good notes. Document episodes. Have you spoken with other Scout parents/Scouts? Have others seen/heard/experienced similar events? My suggestions for order to pursue::: 1) Troop Key Three ( COR, Committee Chair, Scoutmaster) and Committee. Polite conversation, show them the BSA Advancement Guide, G2SS, Brian on Scouting, this website.... whatever is germane. Involve the IH lastly .... Smile and wave... 2) Assigned Unit Commissioner. Conversation, do you HAVE one.... Perhaps your interpretation is incorrect? Make sure....Discuss general Troop/Scout culture. Is the particular situation indicative of other problems? Personal personnel issues? Egoes involved? 3) District Advancement Chair.... Has this happened before locally? Ramifications for the Scout's (Scouts' ) future? Record keeping? 4) Council Advancement chair? Council's attitude will be that this is a "local" issue. IH and COR have jurisdiction unless there are serious YP issues. Keep things on a polite, factual level. Good Scouting to you. If enough parents/Scouts see the same problems, and several express reason to "jump ship" to another unit, the message might get thru...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagledad Posted August 31, 2020 Share Posted August 31, 2020 On 8/28/2020 at 9:29 PM, CynicalScouter said: What specifically are they violating? Adding? Subtracting? Etc. Since you indicate that the Key-3 are "OK with that", then depending on the advancement rule the answer is going to either by the district executive or council advancement (or both). I agree with CynicalScouter. For years our district believed that the SM had to be the final authority on MBs. We use the White Sheet MB application that requires the SM to only sign before the Scout starts his work with the MB Counselor. It took a couple years to retrain the SMs in our district. I could go on with advancement myths, but the point is to make sure you understand the guidelines to fully understand who is out of line. Barry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrjohns2 Posted September 2, 2020 Share Posted September 2, 2020 On 8/31/2020 at 8:42 AM, Eagledad said: We use the White Sheet MB application What is the “white sheet”? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CynicalScouter Posted September 2, 2020 Share Posted September 2, 2020 (edited) 13 minutes ago, mrjohns2 said: What is the “white sheet”? May mean this. https://filestore.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/34403.pdf Edited September 2, 2020 by CynicalScouter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thunderbird Posted September 2, 2020 Share Posted September 2, 2020 If I remember correctly from a conversation a while ago, I think the "white sheet" @Eagledad is referring to is his council's version of the blue card. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShootingSports Posted September 4, 2020 Share Posted September 4, 2020 The Charter Org. Rep (COR) is responsible for the leadership of the Troop. While I would go to the district first and ask about any issues, the ultimate person to decide on leadership is the COR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuctTape Posted September 4, 2020 Share Posted September 4, 2020 58 minutes ago, ShootingSports said: The Charter Org. Rep (COR) is responsible for the leadership of the Troop. While I would go to the district first and ask about any issues, the ultimate person to decide on leadership is the COR. While it is true the CO decides on the person for leadership position, the CO agreed in Chartering Agreement to follow the BSA rules including the Guide to Advancement. One of the duties of the Troop Committee is ensuring this occurs. Theoretically a CO which willfully disregards the GTA et al is in breach of the Chartering Agreement and could potentially lose their charter. In reality this never happens b/c the council would lose membership numbers and that is the metric used to evaluate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TAHAWK Posted September 4, 2020 Share Posted September 4, 2020 Politely, give the Chartering organization a reasonable time under the circumstances to cause the SM to follow the rules. If that fails, find another troop that follows the rules if one exists. Neither BSA nor the council is at all likely to do anything, regardless of the Scout Law. See Eric Hoffer - the three stages of a great cause. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yknot Posted September 4, 2020 Share Posted September 4, 2020 24 minutes ago, DuctTape said: While it is true the CO decides on the person for leadership position, the CO agreed in Chartering Agreement to follow the BSA rules including the Guide to Advancement. One of the duties of the Troop Committee is ensuring this occurs. Theoretically a CO which willfully disregards the GTA et al is in breach of the Chartering Agreement and could potentially lose their charter. In reality this never happens b/c the council would lose membership numbers and that is the metric used to evaluate. All our CO does is provide us with space and benign support. It's a church with an aging and declining congregation. All they know is that we meet in the basement. We avoid bothering them for anything. If we asked them to get involved in anything like this they would be incredulous lol. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owls_are_cool Posted September 4, 2020 Share Posted September 4, 2020 On 8/28/2020 at 7:42 PM, OLDRIFLE said: We have several issues with the scoutmaster not following the BSA advancement rules. Who should I turn to when everyone in the K3 is OK with that? I would like more details on how the BSA advancement rules are not being followed. Requirements seem to constantly change (though the guide to advancement not so much so), thus as newer Scoutmaster (and new to scouts BSA), I find occasional parent perceptions in conflict with the actual requirements and the guide to advancement. If you have already shown your scoutmaster the relevant section of the Guide to Advancement and the latest in requirements (though there are some grandfathering going on) and they still refuse to follow the rules, then bring it up to your district or council. However, they do not have much power, so changing troops (or lone scout) might be a better option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TAHAWK Posted September 5, 2020 Share Posted September 5, 2020 The Council COULD cause the SM and/or the troop to lose registration. That is considerable power. In theory. But it would negatively impact revenue. Ohio has the death penalty, but has not actually enforced it in fifty-seven years. Theory vs. reality. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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