ParkMan Posted September 17, 2020 Share Posted September 17, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, fred8033 said: Agree. As a 12+ year district volunteer, districts and councils chat all the time about how to drive membership. But there is little special they can do. The only success is helping units run their own membership drive. Flyers. Road signs. I largely agree with this. As a district volunteer who has dabbled in membership from time to time, I would articulate that there are a few components to a membership campaign: Individual unit recruiting - this is where I agree with you 200%. The successful units I know are the ones who actively work on growing membership. Why? Because more membership brings more volunteers and energy. Individual unit membership is where is all starts. District/Council can encourage and train here, but that cannot force this. Quality unit programs - The most successful units I know are the ones who have strong, quality programs. They recruit in part through reputation. Scouts & parents talk to their friends about what a fantastic time their kid is having in Scouting. District/Council can assist in developing leaders, assisting in resolving unit issues, and augmenting programming. This requires a capable unit service program, a training program, and good programming to augment unit programs. New Unit development - Population growth, natural unit demise, etc. results in the need for new units to start. This can be left to happen organically. District/Council can proactively champion this effort and will likely see better results. This requires technical skill and knowledge in how to effectively start new units. Market development - Someone needs to raise the visibility and interest in Scouting overall. District/Councils could help here with local advertising, publicity, and co-ordinating "join Scouting" local event. National has a big opportunity to influence through national advertising. Is district/council needed? One could argue successfully that district/council is not really needed here. I think the core of this argument is that strong units will take care of their own recruiting and develop their own quality programs. Further, strong local programs will then result good word of mouth that results in more units. In that model, national can play a big role through good marketing. One could alternatively argue successfully that district/council plays a key role in this. To me the this question is a good one to debate, pick an approach, and then determine a solid strategy around. The problem in my mind is that strategies where district/council is actively involved requires real, active engagement and are bandwidth intensive. Most districts and councils don't have the ability for a bandwidth intensive membership effort like this and so whatever does happen is "best effort" and haphazard. There are probably very few councils nationally that do this well. Unless nationally we give up on active council/district participation like this, I would like to see technical knowledge from national about how to really do this. Not some webinars, or a UoS training, or the occasional council conference call on membership, but real engagement designed to deliver results. Perhaps this could even be done in a staged 5 year plan. i.e., if you are just starting out, here is what you can do. if you have a team today, here's what you can do. That kind of thing. Edited September 17, 2020 by ParkMan grammar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParkMan Posted September 17, 2020 Share Posted September 17, 2020 (edited) 37 minutes ago, InquisitiveScouter said: OK, expand the paradigm shift...hire a Cubmaster, too! Hah - I've heard a number of people suggest that the future of Scouting is paid unit leadership. Paid Cubmasters & Scoutmasters. I think if that day happens, I'll hang up my uniform. Edited September 17, 2020 by ParkMan expanded the thought Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InquisitiveScouter Posted September 17, 2020 Share Posted September 17, 2020 7 minutes ago, ParkMan said: Hah - I've heard a number of people suggest that the future of Scouting is paid unit leadership. Paid Cubmasters & Scoutmasters. I think if that day happens, I'll hang up my uniform. Why would you hang up your uniform?? If a person spends 40+ hours a week making a great program that benefits the youth in our community, why would you "muzzle the ox while he is treading the grain?" We all know it is a good program which attracts membership. And we all know it is quality unit leaders who ensure a good program. A great unit leader can have a program without help or support from the district or council (except for the registrar...and maybe a local Scout shop, but these days, with Amazon and next day delivery, that could be overcome...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParkMan Posted September 17, 2020 Share Posted September 17, 2020 2 minutes ago, InquisitiveScouter said: Why would you hang up your uniform?? If a person spends 40+ hours a week making a great program that benefits the youth in our community, why would you "muzzle the ox while he is treading the grain?" We all know it is a good program which attracts membership. And we all know it is quality unit leaders who ensure a good program. A great unit leader can have a program without help or support from the district or council (except for the registrar...and maybe a local Scout shop, but these days, with Amazon and next day delivery, that could be overcome...) I just think this is the wrong direction for the program. To me a pack where the Cubmaster is spending 40+ hours a week on the program is not a healthy pack. Den Leaders, Assistant Cubmaster, Committee Members, etc all contribute to make a pack successful. When you put too much on one person, the health of the pack become dependent on the ability and bandwidth of that one person. The person leaves, the pack fails. Scouting is inherently an involved parent activity. When we start paying people, it changes the whole dynamics of the program. It's a job at that point. The history of Scouting is volunteerism. We keep trying to fix the fact that we don't know how to recruit volunteers by paying people. To a large extent, I think that we've abused the DE position so much that it's created much dysfunction in community Scouting. Instead of paying the Cubmaster, let's fix the pack so that parents can reasonably shoulder the volunteer time. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yknot Posted September 17, 2020 Share Posted September 17, 2020 5 minutes ago, InquisitiveScouter said: Why would you hang up your uniform?? If a person spends 40+ hours a week making a great program that benefits the youth in our community, why would you "muzzle the ox while he is treading the grain?" We all know it is a good program which attracts membership. And we all know it is quality unit leaders who ensure a good program. A great unit leader can have a program without help or support from the district or council (except for the registrar...and maybe a local Scout shop, but these days, with Amazon and next day delivery, that could be overcome...) Just as a point of comparison, some volunteer youth programs have gone to a kind of quasi paid model in the form of a stipend. This is often supported by some kind of a family bond payment above and beyond fees. If you want the bond money back, you take on a volunteer job. If you feel you don't have time to volunteer, you forfeit your bond payment and that money is provided as a stipend to someone else who did step up to volunteer. It's not really pay -- the hours required are still way beyond the stipend -- but more of an enticement or motivator. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InquisitiveScouter Posted September 17, 2020 Share Posted September 17, 2020 @ParkMan, great points in theory...but I have never, in over 40 years of Scouting, seen a program where the lion's share of the burden does not rest on just a few people begging for additional volunteer (parent) support... And we have the best Troop in our council because of a few overburdened, yet dedicated volunteers... 10 minutes ago, ParkMan said: changes the whole dynamics of the program That is what paradigm shift implies, no?? 10 minutes ago, ParkMan said: abused the DE position so much that it's created much dysfunction in community Scouting. Wholeheartedly concur...but would you elaborate on this one a bit, please? Who abuses the DE, and how? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InquisitiveScouter Posted September 17, 2020 Share Posted September 17, 2020 4 minutes ago, yknot said: Just as a point of comparison, some volunteer youth programs have gone to a kind of quasi paid model in the form of a stipend. This is often supported by some kind of a family bond payment above and beyond fees. If you want the bond money back, you take on a volunteer job. If you feel you don't have time to volunteer, you forfeit your bond payment and that money is provided as a stipend to someone else who did step up to volunteer. It's not really pay -- the hours required are still way beyond the stipend -- but more of an enticement or motivator. When we had our kids in private school, this was the case. The school said pay an additional fee now, and if you volunteer x number of hours, we will refund you. And it wasn't pro-rated...reach x number of hours, or no refund... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yknot Posted September 17, 2020 Share Posted September 17, 2020 19 minutes ago, InquisitiveScouter said: When we had our kids in private school, this was the case. The school said pay an additional fee now, and if you volunteer x number of hours, we will refund you. And it wasn't pro-rated...reach x number of hours, or no refund... I think scouts is going to have to accept many paradigm shifts in order to survive. This type of thing might be one of them. Declining volunteer rolls isn't a problem unique to scouting. Scouting is the most volunteer intense organization of any I am involved with, and parents frankly have less and less time to give and money to spend. It's also generational. Millennials do not seem to have the same interest in volunteering as prior generations. Or maybe they do, but they want to do it differently. They certainly do not want to waste their time with ridiculous paperwork. Instead, they want phone apps and seamless, one stop digital portals for registration, payment, scheduling, and management of their child's activities and their involvement with them. The youth organizations that are succeeding are ones that are adapting to this and looking at new ways of operating. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CynicalScouter Posted September 17, 2020 Share Posted September 17, 2020 15 minutes ago, yknot said: Millennials do not seem to have the same interest in volunteering as prior generations. Or maybe they do, but they want to do it differently. They certainly do not want to waste their time with ridiculous paperwork. Instead, they want phone apps and seamless, one stop digital portals for registration, payment, scheduling, and management of their child's activities and their involvement with them. The youth organizations that are succeeding are ones that are adapting to this and looking at new ways of operating. That's exactly right. Millennials are actually more likely to volunteer that other generations BUT a) they will only stay with something for a short time and b) they want it easy. I saw a presentation where the speaker made this point. His father was with the Sierra Club for decades. Had an old, tattered Sierra Club card from 40 years prior in his wallet. He was part of some organizations in his youth/early career but towards the latter half changed focus to another set. Millennials are likely to donate/volunteer for one cause this year, another next year, and another the year after that. It is impossible to development a membership based on annual turnover like that. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InquisitiveScouter Posted September 17, 2020 Share Posted September 17, 2020 3 minutes ago, CynicalScouter said: Millennials are likely to donate/volunteer for one cause this year, another next year, and another the year after that. It is impossible to development a membership based on annual turnover like that. Also impossible to develop a solid set of outdoor/Scouting skills... the decline and fall of the Scouting Empire Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParkMan Posted September 17, 2020 Share Posted September 17, 2020 1 hour ago, InquisitiveScouter said: @ParkMan, great points in theory...but I have never, in over 40 years of Scouting, seen a program where the lion's share of the burden does not rest on just a few people begging for additional volunteer (parent) support... And we have the best Troop in our council because of a few overburdened, yet dedicated volunteers... In my experience this is true of lots of things - not just Scouting. There are people on my team at work who have a significantly larger impact that most others. I think this is just part of life - we'll always have superstars and role players. However, the trick for the Unit Committee (and specifically the Committee Chair) needs to recognize that they are building an organization - not trying to put on a program. Our troop was the strongest in the District too and we had an active adult committee of 30+ people. We did that by delegating whenever possible. Sure, there are times that people fail or don't deliver, but that's OK. As Committee Chair, my job was to constantly develop talented volunteers. Were we perfect - no, far from it. But we had a robust team. But yes, even in that model, the Scoutmaster and many of the key leaders were overworked. But, they were overworked because they wanted to be. 1 hour ago, InquisitiveScouter said: That is what paradigm shift implies, no?? I'm hesitant to embrace paradigm shifts without first seeing success. It's easy to look at a reoccurring problem and say - this is unachievable and then change things. Such as the case here. Unfortuantely the history of the BSA is full of examples where we have paradigm shifts to solve an issue that never really solves the issue. In an organization where success is driven by the strength of your team, simply paying someone to do it won't make the team stronger - it just gets you someone who can do a bunch of stuff for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InquisitiveScouter Posted September 17, 2020 Share Posted September 17, 2020 Just now, ParkMan said: As Committee Chair, my job was to constantly develop talented volunteers. 1 minute ago, ParkMan said: recognize that they are building an organization Will you move here and be our CC, please?? (with no pay ) 1 minute ago, ParkMan said: simply paying someone to do it won't make the team stronger - it just gets you someone who can do a bunch of stuff for you. concur Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParkMan Posted September 17, 2020 Share Posted September 17, 2020 1 hour ago, InquisitiveScouter said: Wholeheartedly concur...but would you elaborate on this one a bit, please? Who abuses the DE, and how? Lots of people abuse the DE. 1. Scout Executive and other council professionals. I've seen countless times how our council level professionals turn to the DE for things that volunteers ought to do. Membership, program, unit service, etc. We see DEs working 50, 60, 70 hours a week running around doing whatever their boss tells them to do. In the process, the DE has a tendency to just go solve the issue. This results in weakening the district team. If a DE is doing all the unit service, then why bother to have a commissioner staff? If a DE is organizing the district events, then why have a committee. 2. District Committees. District volunteers get lazy and simply assume the DE will do it. Make copies, pick up forms, etc. We pay a DE something like $20-$30 an hour. Is it worth $20 for a paid professional to go make photocopies for your training team meeting? More importantly, what activity is the DE not doing while he is making those photcopies? 3. Units. In the modern era a DE supports what - 30, 40, 50 or more units? When units are leaning on the DE to pick up applications, buy things at the Scout Store, etc., that's a very expensive resource. Again, we need DEs focused on that hard problems such as starting new units, or solving challenging unit issues, or developing district volunteers - not picking up the awards for tomorrow's pack meeting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParkMan Posted September 17, 2020 Share Posted September 17, 2020 7 minutes ago, InquisitiveScouter said: Will you move here and be our CC, please?? (with no pay ) concur Haha! I loved being Troop CC. I told my successor that it's the single best job in Scouting. As CC you get to see and experience everything. You get to watch parents succeed and expand their horizons. You get to watch a team come together and accomplish things they never realized that they could do. You get to be the biggest cheerleader and paint the vision. The price is that you just don't get to "do" anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InquisitiveScouter Posted September 17, 2020 Share Posted September 17, 2020 Wow! No wonder there is a high turn over rate...I wouldn't do any of that...nor ask the DE to do it. Our previous DE, when he first came in, pulled me aside and asked what is the one thing our district needed to focus on. I told him we need Commissioners. I think we have two...and I don't even know who ours currently is... And we currently have no DE. 1 minute ago, ParkMan said: The price is that you just don't get to "do" anything. I twist our CC's arm to come camping with us...a lot!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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