problem with cubmaster

[biggar]

Hi All,

This is great, as a new leader I didnt know where I might find helpful info, I stumbled onto this and will be letting others know about it .Heres my problem, I was the Asst. Den Leader for a bear den with nine boys we got a new cubmaster and he kinda went power crazy and fired my den leader for a bogus reason which made me den leader (She disagreed with him over some issues and he took it personal) .All the boys had been together since Tiger Cubs I knew all the parents so I thought things would be ok .He then decided to split the den,this I thought was because of my speaking out about the firing of the den leader. He decided he would also be den leader and since his son was one of the boys in my den i was not suprised that he took him with him to his new den six of the other boys went to his den leaving me three boys, my son, the ex den leaders son an other boy whos parents spoke out also (she was our previous cubmaster and gave up her posistion due to health reasons, she was also fired)Since he gave all the boys a choice I assumed the boys all wanted to be with there friends so it was ok with me. I am determinded to keep these three boys in scouts and they did not want to go to his den then two more boys joined the pack and went to his den, I really couldnt figure out why he was leaving three boys in one den and 9 in another? We were informed in June by our ex Den leader that he had made comments saying that I was intoxicated at Den meetings (I can assure you nothing could be further from the truth!!!!!) We decided to ignore this comment because this person knew that this was not a true statement,and in fact was due to health issues, I suffer from a Degenative disease that sometimes affects my mobility and also my eyes, When I am having a "flare up" I do tend to stumble a bit and have very red swollen eyes, We had no idea that this was something that was being spread around the pack until recently, My wife was told by the wolf den leader that the cubmaster had made the comment to her and her asst. that the reason we were losing boys was because parents had complained he was showing up at meetings intoxicated which means he is now spreading this nasty viscious lie throughtout our pack,The cubmaster is not aware of my illness) if he believed this to be true shouldnt his 1st response have been to confront me with this SERIOUS allegation? Should the BSA have been notified? Neither of which he did instead he has chose to spread this LIE around the pack and to our pack charter rep. who is our sons Elementary

Principle, I am not the type of person who pays attention to silly gossip and hear say but I can not let this go unnoticed anymore I feel that I have to protect my good name and defend myself against these lies. Had I been confronted with this I could have straightened the whole mess out by making them aware of my illness instead because of personal feelings the Cubmaster chose to take it through the gossip mill. I guess my question is How do I handle this? I can no longer ignore it, I am totally humiliated by this whole thing and worry about the possible backlash this could have on my 8 yr old son,

Is there a place that I can file a formal complaint against the cubmaster? Please do not suggest I go to our charter rep or any of the other "leaders" in our pack this is obviously something they have all been informed of and up to this point have decided to just keep it under their hats and I now feel as if I am being "talked about" at meetings ("is he drunk now? "has he been drinking again") This has caused great mental stress for me and my wife and we would love nothing better than to just quit scouts and forget the way we have been treated but we have an 8 yr. old son who loves being a scout and does not want to quit, not to mention the other 2 boys left in our den (their parents were fired by this man) who would be left out in the cold. If anyone has any advice or suggestions on how I should handle this sitiuation it would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks-Garry

[johndaigler]

There's so much in your post that it's hard to focus. CMs firing DLs??? I have no doubt there's much more here than I've understood.

 

But aiming at the most obvious issue: your health and the misunderstanding that exists around you. Would you be able to gather the appropriate leaders including this CM and some district personnel and have them meet your doctor so that they might gain an understanding of your condition and how that does/does not impact your work with boys. It might be Monday morning QBing, but this was probabl

[Eamonn]

John hit the nail on the head when he said that there was a lot going on.

First, I'm really sorry that you have this illness. While you may not want to make a big thing about it and might not want to discuss it. Try for a minute to put yourself in the shoes of the people who don't know about it and see a person who looks drunk. What are they to think? Sad as it may be they will think that he is drunk. You will need to explain this to the parents, the boys and the other leaders in the pack. I would hope that once they are in the know that they will be more supportive.

Once you have an open line of communication with the Cubmaster, you might want to ask him why he is doing what he has done?

From what you have posted the Cubmaster is out of control and does need some help. You might want to have a chat with your Unit Commissioner and see if he or she can help.

You could of course give some thought to transferring to another pack.

Eamonn.

[biggar]

Thank You for responding. Your right I did tend to get a little long winded in my 1st post (there is just so much going on with this pack)

As for your suggestion on having leaders meet with my Dr.to explain my condition I strongly disagree with that, 1st My Dr. is a very busy specialist in his field, and who would pay for his time to meet with us?

2nd-Had the CM come to me with this I could have given him an explanation on what my limitations were/were not, Had he had any further concerns then we possibly could have taken it to the level of getting my Doc involved, My issue is that instead of bringing this to ME he is taking it to others in our pack and that is just wrong and I believe to be considered gossiping (which if you check Leaders Handbook on page 4-4 under honesty you will see that gossiping is not an acceptable practice with BSA. It would seem to me that the safety and protection of our children should have been foremost in the CM priorities not "gossiping" about it. If this had been a true statement then the CM would still be allowing a "drunk" to conduct Den meetings.

So back to my original question "Who do I contact with this problem?" Thanks -Garry

[biggar]

I do feel my health issues are a very personal matter but had I been confroted with this accusation I could have nipped it by letting them know what is going on with me, by the CM gossiping throughout the group instead of bringing this matter to my attention or the BSA attention he denied me this right, that I feel is wrong.Do you not agree that he acted poorly on this and that I should somehow be vindicated with our pack? Bottom line had he come to me or BSA I would not have a number of parents thinking this horrible lie about me and thinking I was around their children drunk.

[biggar]

Who do I contact in the BSA to file a complaint against the CM????

[ozemu]

Firstly welcome to the fire and I hope you gain as much as I have and that your Scouts (Cubs, Bears or whomever) (I get confused) benefit from your use of the forum.

 

Please us more paragraphs with such complex questions as your first post.

 

As for who you should contact I would think that you have a Scouting boss one up from the CM and I would tell that person.

 

But I would also tell the CM, charter rep and anyone else I thought may not have the correct story. At least I would if I wanted to stay with that pack / den.

 

Megalomania in someone else could be more difficult to address. If that continues I wopuld look elsewhere for my Scouting experience if that were possible. It is supposed to be fun for the Scouts and for the Scouters after all

 

Good Luck.

 

 

[ScoutNut]

Have you considered confronting the CM, with an independent witness (maybe your Unit Commissioner) in tow of course?

 

Your problem is a good example of why accurate health histories are needed for everyone, youth and adult. What would happen if you were to have more than just a "flare up" at a meeting. If no one knew what was really happening, vital help might be very late in reaching you, with potentially nasty results.

 

 

[ScoutNut]

Who to contact -

 

Charter Org Representative

Institutional Head of your Charter Organization

Unit Commissioner

District Executive

 

In that order. Some, or all, of them should be able to help you.

 

As E stated, you might want to consider transfering to a Pack that follows BSA policy.

 

 

[Eamonn]

You in your posting say not to tell you to go to the Charter Rep or the other leaders. Then you ask where to go?

All the Leaders in the pack were selected by the Chartering Organization. Everybody "Works" for the chartering organization.

Believe me while the people who serve on the District and Council level, may feel for you and might agree that you have been treated badly or unfairly, other then kind words there is little or nothing that they can do.

Maybe the Cubmaster is a power crazy nit. But he is the power crazy nit that they selected.

What do you think should happen to the Cubmaster?

Eamonn

[Laurie]

I have been accused falsely of something. Thankfully, for whatever reasons (I'm surprised at this), the CR, UC, and DE all blew off the accusation, knowing it was not true. However, I learned that by calling the CR first, then the UC for advice on how to proceed in the best interests of the unit with the gossip that had begun, and then the DE because the DE's name was involved by the accuser. The person making the accusation was also confronted by me--directly and immediately. That person is no longer part of the unit, nor will that person be welcomed back. Thankfully the accusation, though serious, was not about the youth. The CR, UC, and DE have remained supportive of the unit, and because of their vote of confidence in the unit as a whole and the good relationships I have with them, the unit quickly put rumor to rest. It is a non-issue now, and my son wasn't touched by it. Use the resources available, do it quickly and calmly, but do it. I might even put this into writing at this point; documenting what is taking place is a good idea, even if it's for better recall for you.

[PNScouter]

biggar,

 

I agree with the advice given in this forum. You must tell all of the adults in your unit ASAP. Ideally they should have known the day you joined scouting.

[Rooster7]

In regard to the fired den leaders -

 

Given your description of the events, I have to say it does sound as if your CM is a little power hungry. All that firing stuff seems over the top, but to be fair your story seems to lack a lot of detail. Where is the committee chairman in all of this? And if people are truly being forced out, on whos authority is this supposedly being done? Does he have the support of the chartering organization?

 

In regard to the false accusation

 

The CM is guilty of not being straightforward that is, if he had simply confronted you about your drunken appearance, he would have discovered (hopefully to his delight) that you were in fact not drunk. By appearances, he is also guilty of gossip. Nevertheless, couldnt you resolve this situation by simply avoiding the same error that the CM has committed? Be direct and avoid all the non-sense by confronting the CM and the CC. Tell them that you are aware of some gossip and you want to put it to rest. Unless these guys are morons, the situation does not have become any uglier than it has been. I suspect that they would recognize the mistake and apologize profusely (unless you go into attack mode). In short, give them a chance to make it right before seeking outside help. Thats my two cents.

(This message has been edited by Rooster7)

[EagleInKY]

I was trying to come up with a way to say what Rooster said... His approach for confronting the gossip is spot-on.

 

As for your pack organization, it sounds like you all have some work ahead of you. You need to work with your CC and COR to get the pack organized and running the way packs are supposed to run.

[Davej775]

Even if you confront the CM with documentation and the Dr. to explain you medical situation, the accusing rumor spreading CM will NEVER acknowledge his errors. His character flaw of meglomania permits him to always be right and to discount everyone else around them. He is the true psychopath and I can't imagine how he's tolerated by the other Scout leadership. These character types do not see the positive developing Scout as a a goal in Scouting, only the boy in their power to use for his own glorification, "I'm the boys' LEADER!"

 

You need to let the CO know what went on and Council also. You need to find another Pack and bring the Cubs whose parents were fired.

 

You have a legal avenue for the charge of slander. You might want to persue this as you have been maliciously hurt by this individual as others have formed an opinion of you by his slander and have acted upon it. YIS, Dave J!