Update on Churchill Recommendations

[David CO]

2 hours ago, MattR said:

If you're sure the BSA is going to fold then why are you still here?

I'm still here because the scouting movement is bigger than BSA.  The scouting movement exists in the hearts and minds of millions of scouts and scouters.  No bankruptcy court can take that away.  If BSA folds, we will still be here to keep the spirit of scouting alive.  

 

[yknot]

BSA is so caught up in its old view of what it is that it missed an historic opportunity this spring and summer  to recruit youth especially at the cub level. No other youth organization was as well positioned as this one to provide outdoor opportunities to youth. Instead it focused on online merit badges and zoom meetings. We were more worried about summer camps than summer fun. From family to socially distanced den and patrol hiking to birding to weather watching to insect and mammal study it could have had pre packaged programming that got kids and families outdoors in the backyards or in local parks. Instead of seeing national ads for abuse lawsuits we should have been seeing national ads on how kids and families could use scout programming to safely get outdoors.

[qwazse]

5 hours ago, yknot said:

... Instead of seeing national ads for abuse lawsuits we should have been seeing national ads on how kids and families could use scout programming to safely get outdoors.

Oh, sure ... publicly pushing kids into the known highest risk for abuse scenario ... the one that has zero accountability. If you thought the lawsuit ads are bad now, just imagine how bad they’ll be three decades from for anyone who oversells family scouting today?

[CynicalScouter]

6 hours ago, yknot said:

BSA is so caught up in its old view of what it is that it missed an historic opportunity this spring and summer  to recruit youth especially at the cub level. No other youth organization was as well positioned as this one to provide outdoor opportunities to youth. Instead it focused on online merit badges and zoom meetings.

First, I cannot fault them for that because as you may recall in the spring and early summer it was literally illegal in many states for pack gatherings. No one wanted anything other then outdoor opportunities for youth. But BSA is not about to order packs to meet in defiance of health orders.

Second, one of the reasons why BSA and councils focused on online and zoom meetings is that there was a concerted effort to keep scouting alive in some form or fashion. Remember this happened right when most AoLs crossed over and when lots of spring camping was going to happen plus summer camps. I know in my area there were units that have simply stopped meeting for weeks in any way or shape. The online stuff was not optimal, but for lots of units it was the only scouting they were able to get exposed to because they unit leaders had checked out.

So let's game out your plan. In spring 2020 BSA and local councils reach out to Cub packs with the message "It doesn't matter that your state and local health officials have prohibited gatherings, come join us for an outdoor adventure this Saturday!"

Aside from defying legal health orders (and thereby violating at least 4 provisions of the Scout Law) the Pack would have subjected itself to massive legal liability if any child or adult got sick.

Edited August 13, 2020 by CynicalScouter

[TMSM]

6 hours ago, yknot said:

BSA is so caught up in its old view of what it is that it missed an historic opportunity this spring and summer  to recruit youth especially at the cub level.

Old view? like using the Patrol Method? Giving responsibilities to boys to lead boys? Duty rosters, tent mates, hiking together as a patrol and getting lost, making dinner, playing cards - all that is lost when you add family to the mix. Not sure Cub scouts works as a family event either. 

[CynicalScouter]

11 hours ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

I think they are "punting"  because the leaked Churchill slide caused a major protest of the rank and file.

I found it on Reddit, and the National staffer who leaked it was cut as part of the recent layoffs.

I wonder what would have happened had that not been leaked. How bad it would have been.

Edited August 13, 2020 by CynicalScouter

[Eagle94-A1]

58 minutes ago, CynicalScouter said:

I found it on Reddit, and the National staffer who leaked it was cut as part of the recent layoffs.

Why am I not surprised. And with the large number of layoffs, I bet it won't be considered retaliation. Like I said the good pros either leave, get sidelined to obscure positions, or they get fired.

58 minutes ago, CynicalScouter said:

I wonder what would have happened had that not been leaked. How bad it would have been.

It would have been much, much, much worse. There would have been no input from the membership and volunteers. National would have done whatever they wanted, and there would be nothing we could do because it would be a done deal.

IMHO that former professional helped Scouting , and not hurt it, by leaking the info.

[yknot]

On 8/13/2020 at 8:36 AM, qwazse said:

Oh, sure ... publicly pushing kids into the known highest risk for abuse scenario ... the one that has zero accountability. If you thought the lawsuit ads are bad now, just imagine how bad they’ll be three decades from for anyone who oversells family scouting today?

 

On 8/13/2020 at 8:49 AM, CynicalScouter said:

First, I cannot fault them for that because as you may recall in the spring and early summer it was literally illegal in many states for pack gatherings. No one wanted anything other then outdoor opportunities for youth. But BSA is not about to order packs to meet in defiance of health orders.

Second, one of the reasons why BSA and councils focused on online and zoom meetings is that there was a concerted effort to keep scouting alive in some form or fashion. Remember this happened right when most AoLs crossed over and when lots of spring camping was going to happen plus summer camps. I know in my area there were units that have simply stopped meeting for weeks in any way or shape. The online stuff was not optimal, but for lots of units it was the only scouting they were able to get exposed to because they unit leaders had checked out.

So let's game out your plan. In spring 2020 BSA and local councils reach out to Cub packs with the message "It doesn't matter that your state and local health officials have prohibited gatherings, come join us for an outdoor adventure this Saturday!"

Aside from defying legal health orders (and thereby violating at least 4 provisions of the Scout Law) the Pack would have subjected itself to massive legal liability if any child or adult got sick.

 

On 8/13/2020 at 8:52 AM, TMSM said:

Old view? like using the Patrol Method? Giving responsibilities to boys to lead boys? Duty rosters, tent mates, hiking together as a patrol and getting lost, making dinner, playing cards - all that is lost when you add family to the mix. Not sure Cub scouts works as a family event either. 

 

I posted on this earlier in the summer. I am not talking about revising the cub or scout program or criticizing what troops and packs were doing to keep alive. I was talking about re-purposing existing, branded, BSA content on a national level to entice new families looking for activities to do with their kids. The purpose would have been visibility and recruitment, not advancement. A kid or family that does not belong to scouts has no interest in completing, say, the bird study merit badge. However, there were plenty of kids out there looking for something to do out their window this summer. BSA could have easily pulled a few pieces out of that badge that kids could have done at home courtesy of your local friendly Spider--er, Scouter. If BSA had posted and promoted it on a youtube channel it could have helped drive kids to scouting and the local councils and units. It would have been good for recruitment at a time when we are all struggling with how to connect outside kids and families to us and show value with an organization that is charging more and offering less. 

On a local level, almost every nature center and watershed association near me has been doing this since the spring. They are engaging the kids. They are getting the membership fees from families at a time when all nonprofits are hurting. It's a model that's also working to some lesser degree in the arts and sports. They are not just promoting to their membership -- they are all over social media and other outlets. What do I see from BSA and local scouts? Nothing. Most of the communications I've seen have focused on Zoom meetings and endless online merit badges and will we get to summer camp for advancement opportunities. All good stuff but it is of little interest to kids outside of scouting at a time when we need to reach the broader world. We are a very inward looking organization. I am also not talking about doing anything in contravention to BSA or local health care or CO policy or guidelines. 

I increasingly feel we are doomed. My own son has just informed me he is done. I refuse to push him towards Eagle as I see so many other parents doing, so I guess this is it. 

 

Edited August 14, 2020 by yknot

[TMSM]

1 hour ago, yknot said:

. They are getting the membership fees

I am good with letting National starve for funds. We have may non-profits offering these types of nature outings and fees but scouting is all encompassing and offers many opportunities - National is just bad at marketing, they have free volunteers doing most of the work, free experts, free locations but cant seem to stay in the black. 

If your son is quitting boy scouts ask him why he is cheating his future self. Why not learn how to lead, how to teach your peers, how to overcome hardship and how to recruit new members.  This lesson is not free and not always fun but it will always be of value to know how to lead when you are a parent, manager or a leader in the community. 

 

[David CO]

2 hours ago, yknot said:

 

My own son has just informed me he is done. I refuse to push him towards Eagle as I see so many other parents doing

 

You are absolutely right.  

[David CO]

10 minutes ago, TMSM said:

 

If your son is quitting boy scouts ask him why he is cheating his future self. 

 

Nonsense.  Scouting can be a good activity for a boy, but it is not the only good activity.  There are many others.  

[qwazse]

4 hours ago, yknot said:

... I increasingly feel we are doomed. My own son has just informed me he is done. I refuse to push him towards Eagle as I see so many other parents doing, so I guess this is it. 

I forget where your son is in the program, but as long as he’s doing lots of good elsewhere, then you’re right not to press the issue. Enjoy hiking and camping with him.

[yknot]

2 hours ago, TMSM said:

If your son is quitting boy scouts ask him why he is cheating his future self. Why not learn how to lead, how to teach your peers, how to overcome hardship and how to recruit new members.  This lesson is not free and not always fun but it will always be of value to know how to lead when you are a parent, manager or a leader in the community. 

 

 

5 minutes ago, qwazse said:

I forget where your son is in the program, but as long as he’s doing lots of good elsewhere, then you’re right not to press the issue. Enjoy hiking and camping with him.

 

1 hour ago, David CO said:

Nonsense.  Scouting can be a good activity for a boy, but it is not the only good activity.  There are many others.  

 Thank you all very much for your comments. They must walk their own path. All we can do is show them horizons. And give them a lunch bucket.