Mic o say article

[TAHAWK]

Our Lodge sent a group to the Lakota Reservation annually to be taught dancing, drumming, and singing.  They did ask us not to do the Ghost Dance, and we complied at once.

Edited August 12, 2020 by TAHAWK

[Eagle94-A1]

In the lodge growing up, we had Houma as members. The only time they had a problem with the OA was when one chapter started doing some crazy stuff at powwows. The Houma asked the lodge to handle it, and we did. He reciprocated their help over the years. We had members do research for their appeal for federal recognition. Other former members helped on the cultural side. Long story short, the Jesuits did a good job converting them to Christianity.

Current lodge has an excellent relationship with local tribes. In fact one of the local drums on the powwow circuit was formed at an OA event at the main camp.

[Eagledad]

38 minutes ago, qwazse said:

I could be wrong, but I suspect that the Mic-O-Say folks have done more homework than the bloggers.

If you've never met a Mic-O-Say member, then you haven't experienced true unapologetic dedication. Scouters in that area either love it or hate it. No in between of what I understand. Mic-O-Say is a  Super-Turbocharged version of OA. Most members I believe come from around the KC counsels, but many members are from much farther away.

Barry

[MattR]

I have a story for you. I met some guy and he had Hebrew tattooed on his arm.  I thought that was really odd because anyone that knows Hebrew likely does not have any tattoos. So I thought this could be an interesting person to talk to and I asked him what the meaning was of that tattoo. He said "I don't know, it just looked cool." There was absolutely no offense taken. Besides, it did look cool. And yet, I can just see someone asking a rabbi for a cool looking word for a tattoo and the rabbi saying sure! And handing him Hebrew for putz.

Assuming someone is using a different culture in a respectful manner I think a simple rule is ask someone if it's okay. So ask a local tribe if the regalia is accurate and respectful. If so, great. If not, odds are they would be willing to help. I don't know of any minorities that wouldn't want more people to learn what is important to them.

The article of this thread is not representative of what most people think so I wouldn't get too excited about it.

[prof]

Another article from the same paper

https://www.kansascity.com/news/local/article244810942.html

 

[yknot]

3 hours ago, Eagledad said:

You are crossing two different subjects, my example of uniform of the 1940s, 1970s and 2020 has nothing to do with a my opinion of using Native American lore in the program. 

Barry

Umm... No one else was talking about uniforms except you, sir?  

[satl8]

4 hours ago, David CO said:

This issue is about people who do not practice a Native American religion, but like to dress up and imitate the rituals.  Native Americans are right to feel that their traditional clothing is not a costume, and that their religious rituals are not a game.

 

Couldn't let this one pass- Sorry David you are wrong about this one, period. We work very closely with our affiliated tribe and have their full blessing to wear what we wear and do what we do. Our Lodge has 2 OA advisors that are Native American that work closely with our youth and adults to make sure we do not cross boundaries. There is also a National committee that works with Tribes all across the country.

After the last update from National about clothing we decided to revisit our choices for "ceremonies". I put that in quotes because it is nothing more than a play with actors, lines, scripts, and coordinated movements. We work very hard to make sure our youth do not use broken English and make our candidates experience respectful and meaningful. At no time are we imitating any ritual or religious practice.

Our Native American advisers had no issue with what we were doing but it was not appropriate for our area/region (Plains attire in the Southwest.) One of our advisers made a trip to the Hopi reservation and had a conversation with a couple of Tribal Elders to get clarification. Where we ended up now is basic Pow Wow attire that would be acceptable for anyone to wear in public (ribbon shirts, dark pants, some basic jewelry and sash belts) I would say that we have a good working relationship with the tribe and have their full blessing because we are able to work with them to respect their culture. Does that happen elsewhere? I don't know and cant say.

Nowhere do we imitate any "rituals." Native American religious ceremonies are absolutely forbidden and a no go according to National and our local policies. Name one Native American ritual that you have witnessed being performed by OA or Mic O Say?

All dancing and drum teams have their own sets of rules and regulations. They basically point out that anything that is performed by a dance or drum team must be acceptable for Inter-tribal pow-wows. You are invited to attend (maybe wait until Covid is less of a thing) and I urge you to attend and participate. You will be welcomed to dance and participate at certain times when allowable.

 

[Eagledad]

10 minutes ago, yknot said:

Umm... No one else was talking about uniforms except you, sir?  

Guilty as charged. I led into my post with the track record of your opinion on scout uniforms. 

Barry