Mic o say article

[prof]

Not sure if this is the best forum to post this , so moderators feel free to move.

Attached is a link to an article in the Kansas City newspaper. Very negative about the cultural appropriation.

 Probably the same thoughts are there about OA.

 

https://www.kansascity.com/opinion/editorials/article244845322.html#storylink=sectionheadlines

[qwazse]

Lazy tweet-trolling disguised as journalism. The author didn't even bother to call a local tribal elder for his/her take on the matter.

[Eagle94-A1]

This part gets to me:

Blaise, an author and an illustrator who lives in Arkansas, called out the organization In a blog post on Medium last year for allowing white people to imitate Native Americans.

“Who asked the BSA to ‘preserve’ Native American traditions, and why can’t Native peoples do that for themselves?” she wrote. “Dancing, donning Native regalia, or utilizing sacred symbols (like Eagle feathers or sacred pipes) are not things that should be divorced from their particular tribal reality and religious meaning.”

She obviously does not know the history BSA, OA, and I assume Mic-O-Say, have had. Long story short, when the OA and Mic-O-Say were created, it was illegal for Native Americans to practice their religion and culture. They either went underground, or used the OA as a means of preserving. More on this later

 

 

[fred8033]

This issue will not go away.  Though I don't see the harm and I could easily counter-argue from many directions, it's non-productive.  Society has changed.  Kids don't watch cowboy and Indian movies anymore.  Whole generations are losing connections to our past.  ... The key problem is protesters will always be using BSA to prove their point at BSA's expense.    .... IMHO ... We can come up with our own ceremonies that are just meaningful without using Indian lore.  ... Sadly, our scouts will lose out by being less aware of our countries Indian past, but so be it.  

 

 

[yknot]

When I was a kid I was fascinated by Indians. I loved Westerns. I spent hours looking for arrowheads. I wanted a Mustang. I completely get the sense of wonder and nostalgia and tradition. However, I think it's past time to let things like this go. Kids today are not much interested in it and few parents today are going to look at that aspect of BSA and think, gee, that's what I want my kid to be doing. Most that I know find it cringe worthy. We've had a drop off of interest in OA partly because of it. 

[TAHAWK]

Are X people allowed to imitate Y people?

Pick your definitions of "X" and "Y."

Edited August 11, 2020 by TAHAWK

[fred8033]

There are several local troops that do very meaningful ceremonies.  Lights are dimmed.  Candles are lit.  Words of reflection are spoken.  IMHO, that's exactly what an OA ceremony should be.  Sadly, the rest is out of place in today's society.

 

[fred8033]

Are X people allowed to imitate Y people?  Yes, but you need to pick your battles, time and place.   Protesters have chosen to make BSA's practices a public issue.  IMHO, this is not a battle we want.  

 

[qwazse]

11 minutes ago, fred8033 said:

Are X people allowed to imitate Y people?  Yes, but you need to pick your battles, time and place.   Protesters have chosen to make BSA's practices a public issue.  IMHO, this is not a battle we want.  

 

Which protestors? and under whose authority?

As an Arab American, I might encourage you all to appropriate my culture. There's a mom in my troop who is a belly dance instructor. She can bring you all up to speed. But if another Syrian (say Bashar al-Assad) protests, it's him versus me and that scout mom. Whose wishes would you regard?

[SSScout]

Native American,,,, First Nations,,,,,   

Anyone here heard of  "Straight Arrow"?      

http://iloveshreddedwheat.com/1949-52-straight-arrow-cards/

[AltadenaCraig]

10 hours ago, TAHAWK said:

Are X people allowed to imitate Y people?

While imitating people's cultures might be confused with mimicry or mocking, imitating people's worthy actions should be safe & heralded.

I love the opportunity to quote Gen. Washington, especially in prayer:

"... that God would have you ... in his holy protection, that he would incline the hearts of the Citizens ... to entertain a brotherly affection and love for one another, ... and finally, that he would most graciously be pleased to dispose us all, to do Justice, to love mercy, and to demean ourselves with that Charity, humility and pacific temper of mind, which were the Characteristics of the Divine Author of our blessed Religion, and without an humble imitation of whose example in these things, we can never hope to be a happy Nation."

[David CO]

10 hours ago, qwazse said:

Which protestors? and under whose authority?

As an Arab American, I might encourage you all to appropriate my culture. There's a mom in my troop who is a belly dance instructor. She can bring you all up to speed. But if another Syrian (say Bashar al-Assad) protests, it's him versus me and that scout mom. Whose wishes would you regard?

The sight of me belly dancing would instantly show the flaw in your argument.  EVERYONE would protest!

 

[David CO]

10 hours ago, qwazse said:

As an Arab American, I might encourage you all to appropriate my culture. 

How do you feel about the Shriners?

[TAHAWK]

I love fajitas.  Offended?   Tough.

[fred8033]

Sadly, this is less about right or wrong.  It's about avoiding bad marketing and focusing on the value of the program.  The reason to keep is more tradition.  BSA can do fine with a different style of ceremony and leave the Indian lore behind. 

For me ... I'm German and Catholic.  I get offended by the Packers cultural appropriation of cheese and beer.