Testing Out of IOLS and BALOO

[CynicalScouter]

Anyone doing?

Edited August 10, 2020 by CynicalScouter
Draft documents I was not suppose to share

[jjlash]

From page 6 of the IOLS facilitator guide:

Quote

No test-out option is available for this course, even in the case of those who are experienced in the outdoors. The experiential nature of participating in a patrol and troop, as well as engaging in various methods of learning, provides benefits much greater than just learning the outdoor skills taught.

For IOLS the skills are only part of the purpose.  The other part (even for experienced scouters) is to have that experience of being a new Scout - being in a group of people you might not know, going through the stages of team development, working together, the fellowship.  It never hurts to have a refresher on the skills - the way BSA wants things taught does change from time to time.

The other path Ive used for someone who believes they should not have to go through training - have them help teach the course.  

 

Naturally - during this time of restrictions we'll have to find ways to hold the courses that works within the restrictions  and makes people feel comfortable.  It is entirely possible - in fact off the top of my head there should be very few changes necessary since there is nothing in IOLS or BALOO that involves close personal contact.

[CynicalScouter]

Ok, so then there are councils doing this since at least 2012

https://www.delmarvacouncil.org/document/introduction-to-outdoor-leader-skills-test-out-application-form/119292

http://www.baltimorebsa.org/document/introduction-to-outdoor-leader-skills-test-out-application-form/119292

Quote

I am requesting to complete the test-out option for the Introduction to Outdoor Leader Skills course based on my experience. I believe I am comfortable and confident in performing and/or teaching outdoor skills as described in the current version of the official Boy Scout Handbook. I have attached my Personal Record and Self Evaluation for your review

 

Edited August 10, 2020 by CynicalScouter

[MikeS72]

1 hour ago, CynicalScouter said:

Ok, so then there are councils doing this since at least 2012

https://www.delmarvacouncil.org/document/introduction-to-outdoor-leader-skills-test-out-application-form/119292

http://www.baltimorebsa.org/document/introduction-to-outdoor-leader-skills-test-out-application-form/119292

 

Sounds like some folks are 'doing their own thing' up there.  As far as I am aware, there is no nationally sanctioned 'test out' option.  As a matter of fact, my council was one of a couple a year or so ago that wanted to do IOLS/BALOO online rather than in person, and national was all over them when they got wind of the plans.

When I moved from Webelos Den Leader to ASM, I registered for the next available IOLS course.  When I arrived, our district training chair looked at me, and said 'what are you doing here'.  When I replied that I was there for IOLS, he responded 'why, you probably know more about this than I do'.  During my last stint as an ASM in the 80's IOLS was not around.  Since it is required for SM/ASM to be position trained, I registered and attended.  I never considered asking to 'test out' due to being an Eagle, being WB trained (way back in 1972), being on WB staff, or having more years than I care to count as an adult leader.  I sat and listened, and when we got into practical skills, I stepped in and helped those who had never been scouts as youth (along with a couple of recent Eagles who had forgotten most of their knots).

There is always value in actually taking part in IOLS, even if the value is you stepping up and helping those with less experience.

Edited August 10, 2020 by MikeS72

[Eagle94-A1]

At one time, a test out option was allowed by national. It was for a very brief time. I want to say it was a 2 to 3 year time period when it was allowed. If I remember correctly, that looks like the form National came up with to test out of  IOLS. Let me see if I have the old syllabus that allowed it at home.

 

3 hours ago, MikeS72 said:

When I moved from Webelos Den Leader to ASM, I registered for the next available IOLS course.  When I arrived, our district training chair looked at me, and said 'what are you doing here'.  When I replied that I was there for IOLS, he responded 'why, you probably know more about this than I do'.  During my last stint as an ASM in the 80's IOLS was not around.  Since it is required for SM/ASM to be position trained, I registered and attended.  I never considered asking to 'test out' due to being an Eagle, being WB trained (way back in 1972), being on WB staff, or having more years than I care to count as an adult leader.  I sat and listened, and when we got into practical skills, I stepped in and helped those who had never been scouts as youth (along with a couple of recent Eagles who had forgotten most of their knots).

I had a bunch of SMs who had the Knowledge, Skills, and Abilities through their time as youth and young adults, but never did the training. I used folks like that on staff. For example, the geocacher extraordinaire who went to Philmont 2 times, did the orienteering, geocaching, and backpacking stuff. My 3 beader who was "untrained" in his current position because he never took ITOLS, went over the cooking and basic camping info. My 1 time Philmont treker who was a combat medic, yep he taught First Aid.

Use your resources. 

[Jackdaws]

For BALOO I would say you really should hold it in person as most of those who are attending are really green and probably have zero scouting experience.   They go to the sign up night and an initial camp out and get sucked into helping.   Learning how to plan a campout is vital to ensure success in future camp outs and keeping people engaged. 

For IOLS, it seemed rare that those where there were new to scouting or leadership in scouting.   When I was the district training chair, I actually ran both courses together but in different modules.  I know I will get flamed for it, but to me the courses were fairly similar and the only real difference was the needing to camp overnight (at the time BALOO didn't require camping) and a couple more older skills like an ax yard and other things that make running a troop more advanced than a pack.   Why not have those people who are coming to BALOO kill 2 birds with one stone and get IOLS also?  I felt it would also help towards leadership retention.   We only did it once because scheduling of instructors was difficult at the time.  

 

[Eagle94-A1]

We also gave  WeLOT certification for those doing ITOLS. The two courses were so similar , some actually posted a combined syllabus. 

[jjlash]

On 8/10/2020 at 3:42 PM, Jackdaws said:

  When I was the district training chair, I actually ran both courses together but in different modules.  I know I will get flamed for it, but to me the courses were fairly similar and the only real difference was the needing to camp overnight (at the time BALOO didn't require camping) and a couple more older skills like an ax yard and other things that make running a troop more advanced than a pack.   Why not have those people who are coming to BALOO kill 2 birds with one stone and get IOLS also?  I felt it would also help towards leadership retention.   We only did it once because scheduling of instructors was difficult at the time.  

 

Yep, there is overlap in the list of skills but the purpose for them and the approach to delivering them is different.  I can't find a reference, but as I recall, about the same time National blasted training chairs with "IOLS cannot be done online" they also hit us with "do not combine BALOO and IOLS". 

We used to do like you - combine groups for the skills that overlap.  Now we schedule both courses the same weekend at the same camp so we can share instructors.  We make clear that they are teaching the same skill but they need to follow the curriculum for each course to ensure the delivery is correct for the audience.

[RichardB]

There is no test out option for these courses.   

[Eagle94-A1]

9 minutes ago, RichardB said:

There is no test out option for these courses.   

Yes, we know that there is no current test out option for these courses.

But just like BSA approved Dodgeball as a game for Scouts to play, at one time BSA did allow test outs IOLS. It was in the syllabus, and there was a form that had to be filled out.

[qwazse]

Instead of testing out, the first course in scoutmastership should have as a prerequisite  mastery of all 1st class rank skills, signed off by your troop’s SPL/JASM.

The opening line of the syllabus should read, “Now that you demonstrated that you are a first class scout ... this weekend will give you the tools, as well as the fellowship of other scouters, that will help you excel as a scoutmaster. ...”

Edited August 13, 2020 by qwazse