Law Suits; And Now It Spreads

[ParkMan]

9 minutes ago, David CO said:

No.  BSA is a corporation that profits off of kids participating in scouting.

The BSA is the congressionally chartered corporation established so that kids could scout.  We need to remember why it exists.  The BSA is there for kids.  Kids are not here for the BSA.

This is different from a normal corporation.  Normal companies exist to make profits for their owners.  That is not shy the BSA exists.

So many of the problems in the BSA stem from the fact that we all forget that. 

[David CO]

2 minutes ago, ParkMan said:

This is different from a normal corporation.  Normal companies exist to make profits for their owners.  That is not why the BSA exists.

Let's not kid ourselves.  BSA exists to pay the executives' salaries.  They couldn't care less about us.  BSA is all about the $$$.

[ParkMan]

6 minutes ago, David CO said:

Yes, the numbers have gone down.  That's because fewer kids want to participate.  It's not because fewer kids are able to participate.

On the surface that is correct.  But the BSA has become incapable of meaningfully adapting to help kids Scout today.  The BSA has become so wrapped up in lawsuits and insurance and fees that it simply can no longer adapt.  I look around my area.  The infrastructure that is the BSA today has no idea how to meaningfully grow anymore.

[David CO]

3 minutes ago, ParkMan said:

On the surface that is correct.  But the BSA has become incapable of meaningfully adapting to help kids Scout today.  The BSA has become so wrapped up in lawsuits and insurance and fees that it simply can no longer adapt.  I look around my area.  

BSA has been dysfunctional for a long time now.  Long before the lawsuits.

[ParkMan]

1 minute ago, David CO said:

Let's not kid ourselves.  BSA exists to pay the executives' salaries.  They couldn't care less about us.  BSA is all about the $$$.

That's jaded talk.  Just about everyone who has a job wants to keep it.  I want to keep my job too.  I don't fault those who work for the BSA wanting to continue to do so.

But it's not the real reason it exists or at least not the reason it was intended to exist.

[ParkMan]

5 minutes ago, David CO said:

BSA has been dysfunctional for a long time now.  Long before the lawsuits.

Yep - that is true.  

But the core point is that we are all running around angry with the BSA - lawsuits, anger at execs, whatever.  In the process it's the kids who lose out.

[David CO]

42 minutes ago, ParkMan said:

But the core point is that we are all running around angry with the BSA - lawsuits, anger at execs, whatever.  In the process it's the kids who lose out.

Most kids don't choose to participate in scouting, and they don't feel that they are losing out on anything.  There are lots of good youth activities out there for kids to choose from.  If not scouting, they can do something else.  People don't need to support a dysfunctional BSA, as if there are no other good alternatives.  

 

Edited August 21, 2020 by David CO

[MattR]

2 hours ago, David CO said:

Yes, the numbers have gone down.  That's because fewer kids want to participate.  It's not because fewer kids are able to participate.

I disagree, to a point. This program requires parent participation, evenings and weekends, money and gear. For single parent families, those with multiple gig jobs, and those not making much money, this program is a hard sell.

[Eagledad]

Why would so many girls families join the dysfunctional Boy Scouts. Nobody knows BSA is dysfunctional. Very few on this forum even believe it. 
 

BSA started loosing itself when National started becoming more inclusive by watering down the program way back in the 60s. It continued with Tigers, more Eagles, and New Scout Patrols. These all contributed to a complicated program lost in mediocrity. Pack adults can barely keep their head above water while troop adults push scouts for advancement and leadership in a race for rank. 
 

If National doesn’t believe the BSA Mission and Vision, how can anyone else?
 

Barry

[CynicalScouter]

4 minutes ago, Eagledad said:

Why would so many girls families join the dysfunctional Boy BSA Scouts. 

BSA Eagle > GSA Gold Award

[Eagledad]

13 minutes ago, MattR said:

I disagree, to a point. This program requires parent participation, evenings and weekends, money and gear. For single parent families, those with multiple gig jobs, and those not making much money, this program is a hard sell.

You may be right, but we had a lot of scouts with moms who used scouts to give their son more male role modeling. 

[Cburkhardt]

Very interesting conversation.  People are not born evil.  Some adopt very advanced and evil tactics as they grow.  Those who abused children rightfully deserve the punishment and perpetual shame meted-out by today’s society.  Not-for-profit youth service agencies are not essentially evil.  They are as effective or flawed as the individuals involved.  

Many in the BSA were surely well intended when the so-called “ineligible volunteer list” was devised, but the inconsistent success of that effort and the insufficiency of protection must have been apparent to some in positions of responsibility – especially as the evolution of society toward encouragement of less-restrictive behavioral standards became plainly clear in the 1960s.  

We have to accept that because that list exists and provides a roadmap for abused to seek recompense, the BSA will be stripped of many assets, and this will soon include many council assets and properties – because people from Troop committee chairperson through the national BSA president had responsibility to protect our children.  

Some councils will be severely impacted to the point of dissolution, because the bankruptcy trustees will determine that volunteers in their units, districts and council committees looked the other way on these issues when they should have taken action.  Our tort and bankruptcy systems are the means through which American justice will be administered in those circumstances, and that system will deal harshly with the BSA.  In the spring, I expect councils will be given the opportunity to pay-into the victims trust fund in exchange for a discharge – or they can choose to face lawsuits and stand alone when cases against councils and local volunteers go to trial.

I would be careful about cheerleading a hoped-for disassembly of the BSA.  Over the last couple of months, some variously advocated that volunteers depart, professionals lose their livelihoods, national properties be dissolved and – well terminate just about every organized aspect of Scouting above the unit.  There is the allure of purity in these positions, because it might be wonderful to return to the Scouting of the 1910s, when legend has it that small groups of boys headed off with adult men and engaged in Scoutcraft skill teaching and rugged character-modeling in the unspoiled outdoors.

 

Nevertheless, just as there were good reasons for one-room schoolhouses to grow into today’s imperfect education system, there are good reasons why the BSA grew into a somewhat-bloated support organization.  I am not buying the thought that losing our professionals, financial endowments, high adventure bases, program assistance and the other assistance we have had for a primitive organization echoing a long-gone past is positive.  Nor do I advocate leaving things as they were.  An overall conclusion from our lengthy pre-COVID blogging is that this legal process will chop-down inefficient or unneeded sacred cows and leave behind essentials.  I’m hoping every commenter here will remain and help a rebuilding process with a critical but cooperative spirit.

I remain optimistic that what will emerge from bankruptcy will be adequate national and local organizations to continue Scouting into the future for my daughter and many other children that will follow her.  I hope for sound volunteer leadership, financial support to maintain core properties, competent and productive employees and continued upgraded prospects for young people.  Nothing except our fundamental purpose will be the same.

[David CO]

14 minutes ago, Cburkhardt said:

especially as the evolution of society toward encouragement of less-restrictive behavioral standards became plainly clear in the 1960s.  

I remember that.  At the time it seemed rather shocking.  Comparing those times with the extreme level of moral decay we are now experiencing in 2020 almost makes the 60's look quaint. 

[RememberSchiff]

58 minutes ago, Cburkhardt said:

There is the allure of purity in these positions, because it might be wonderful to return to the Scouting of the 1910s, when legend has it that small groups of boys headed off with adult men and engaged in Scoutcraft skill teaching and rugged character-modeling in the unspoiled outdoors.

That "legend" would be Baden Powell, among others.

 

[David CO]

2 hours ago, Cburkhardt said:

People are not born evil. 

I believe in the concept of original sin.  I love kids.  I get a big kick out of teaching them.  But I don't think they are without sin.