Big Dilemma !!

[fotoscout]

Big Dilemma !!

 

I have a big dilemma, in mid October we will be going to Battleship Cove, non refundable deposits have already been collected. One of my Cubs and his dad are signed up to go with the rest of group. However, this boy, and his parents, made it known that he would not be returning to cub Scouts in September. All of the kids and most of the other parents are aware of this. Sometimes I think the boys wear their Quitting badge more proudly than the badges that they have earned.

 

Our charter is up in December, so technically this boy is still registered until December. So here is my dilemma, I think it sends the wrong message to allow this boy to come on the trip at this time. All of the boys and families going are committed to another year of Scouting. This kind of trip is one of benefits and privileges of being a CS, I am very uncomfortable with the thought of letting this boy and his dad come with us. I can already hear the chours of "how come Mikey is here, he's not a CS anymore!"

 

It is a pack trip, not a community trip for anyone that wants to pay and go.

 

What would you do???

 

 

Foto

 

Battlehip Cove is an overnight trip to the Battleship USS Massachussetts.

[nldscout]

Well, if he is not attending meetings and Dad said he has quit, then how can you consider him a memeber. Just cause your registered, but don't attend does not make you a scout.

 

We have a rule in Troop and Pack, you must attend the last 3 meetings prior to a trip or campout unless your excused.

[dsteele]

I can understand your dilema. I also understand where nldscout is coming from. If your pack has such a rule, you're within your rights to exercise it.

 

However, the boy is still a registered member of the Boy Scouts of America and is entitled to all the rights and priviledges of membership.

 

I would look at this overnight opportunity on the battleship as a chance to "re-recruit" father and son into Cub Scouting. Sometime during the day, have a boy or two have a discussion with the "quit" Cub Scout about why he's quitting and ask if he would like to stay, or what it would take to get him to stay. An adult should have a similar conversation with the father.

 

If I had a last chance like this one to keep a boy in Scouting, I'd take advantage of it.

 

Please let us know how it turns out.

 

Unc.

 

[Eamonn]

Me thinks this is something that the Pack Committee needs to look at and rule on.

If the Lad and Dad have paid and still want to go, I agree with my wise old Unc. This might be a golden opportunity to keep the little fellow in the program.

However, if it is clear that he is going to be a real pain in the neck and disruptive. I would refund the money and try to get someone to take his place. Even if I was unable to find a replacement I would still refund the money and write off the loss.

Of course if the Lad is a good kid and it looks like he would attend and not be a problem, things might be different. Maybe a word with the Dad would be in order, asking him to work with keeping his son from being a pain.

It is important that the decision comes from the Pack Committee and not from one person. This helps prevent a Leader coming off as the "Bad Guy". Or if the Committee allows the Lad to attend and things don't work out, the Leader is not to blame.

It could be that this little fellow is wearing this "Quiting Badge" as a ploy to gain attention? If this is the case, I would give him all the attention needed to keep him in the pack.

Even if the Lad thinks that he is no longer a member of the pack, as this is a pack outing, I would expect all those going to wear their uniform. There would be no exceptions. If he goes, he goes as a Cub Scout and will be expected to act like a Cub Scout.

Eamonn.

[fotoscout]

Thank you for confirming my dilemma.

 

The kid has been on the fence for at least the last year. At one time the boy literally got the hat off my head, at another time he got the slide off my neckerchief. Weve worked with this boy for a long time. I am beyond thinking of it as a last attempt to keep the boy. All it would do is prolong the inevitable. As far as putting more time in with this boy is concerned, been there-done that, is my response. The real shame here is this; Dad has great memories of BSs and a desire for Son#2 to be in Cub Scouts. But the only thing that Dad does with Son#2 is watch football. When the season is over he watches reruns. Son#1 is a on the road to becoming a 13 year old Eagle Scout, and is quite the scholar. He is self motivated, more mature than his years would indicate and very quiet. The polar opposite of Son#2! Son#2 has a twin sister who is, well, daddys little girl. So yes, the Quitting Badge may very well be a call for attention, but its not my attention that hes seeking. Shy of moving in with my family this boy has gotten all the attention he can possibly get from me.

 

Eamonn It was clearly stated that the deposit was non refundable, we even had the parent sign that they understood the policy! I am not inclined to eat anything when it comes to this kind of thing, and my thoughts would not have gone in that direction. I will bring the idea to the committee. As for being the bad guy, someone is always the fall guy in a situation like this. It may as well be me.

 

Thanks Guys.

 

[boleta]

I really don't see the dilemma here. If he is registered up to December, then he is a member of the Pack until then. If you require dues and he is up to date, then he is in good standing. If he is not up to date, make him pay his dues before he is allowed to go. If he is not showing up for den meetings, he is the only one that is missing out. He has paid for the trip and wants to go.

 

Not allowing a Cub Scout to go on a trip he has paid for seems small and mean-spirited. If that is your rule, I think it is wrong. Accent the positive and use the opportunity to keep him in Scouts just as Unc and Eamonn have suggested. Let him go on the trip and make it clear that all rules will be followed by ALL scouts. If anyone violates the rules, send them home but apply this rule the same way to all scouts.

[scoutldr]

Agree with boleta. The time to be wrestling with this was before they paid the non-refundable deposit. Too late now. They're registered members. They've paid. They go.

 

I would, however, mention frequently, what a shame it will be when he can't go next year.(This message has been edited by scoutldr)

[nldscout]

This is where I have to disagree with boleta and scoutldr. If your not attending meeting and not doing things with your den and pack and you and your parents have stated that you have quit, then your not a scout. AS fotoscout stated he has put as much effort into this scout as he is willing, and taking him would most likely disrupt the rest of the pack. Sometimes you have to deceide do you sacri

[fotoscout]

small and mean spirited

 

If took me a minute to calm down before I responded to this one. No, there is nothing small or mean spirited about this at all. Its all about the message we send to the boys, the ones that will be going, and the one that will not be going.

 

Through the afternoon I made a series of phone calls to our committee people (its not really a lot of phone calls), to my surprise they were unanimous in suggesting that the boy not accompany us on the trip. Similarly, they were not inclined to eat the losses and refund the non-refundable deposit.

 

 

 

 

 

[scoutldr]

I'm confused...if the boy is a PITA , and the parents have announced he is not "returning" in Sept (since Scouting is a year-round program, not sure what that means), why in the world would you have taken their money and allowed him to sign up for this trip?

[fotoscout]

It took me a minute to figure out what a PITA is.

 

I never said he was a PITA. I said that we have worked very hard with this boy in an effort to keep him in scouting. He has had more than his share of special attention already, the time for that has passed; there is no purpose in extending that effort into this trip. Scoutldr, the CS year begins in September with school night or roundup or whatever you want to call it. Monies are exchanged, new programs are started, and we all move off together, in September.

 

Battleship Cove is a very popular program in this area. Deposits for this trip were taken in October-November 2003. That is why they are non-refundable! And by the way the deposits are non refundable from Battleship Cove Inc. We are not the ones keeping the money.

(This message has been edited by fotoscout)

[BadenP]

Interesting dilema here because all the posters are essentially correct. Under the letter of the law the boy is a member of scouting and you took his money, so he is entitled to go. Under the spirit of scouting you can suggest he reconsider because of his soon to be departure and his lack of participation, but you technically can't mandate him not to go if you are not going to refund the money. Since the boy is not a danger to the other scouts or himself there are no grounds to prohibit him. My suggestion is to talk to the dad and offer him a refund, yes you will have to take the loss, if he refuses then use it as an opportunity to try to get the boy back.

[nldscout]

BP you said,

"Under the letter of the law the boy is a member of scouting and you took his money, so he is entitled to go."

 

Would you please tell me where you get this from?

 

If you join a group, agree to certain rules and then notify the group you no longer wish to be a member you have no inherant rights to participate in the group. If your not attend group functi

[scoutldr]

Well, we can argue this until the cows come home.

 

You said yourself his paid registration doesn't end until December. What's September got to do with it? He is a member of the Pack unless his membership has been revoked for cause, and I believe only Council can do that. I believe if they appeal to Council, you'll lose, so you should probably discuss this with your SE before you do anything. You are denying this boy this boy because they have stated their "intention" not to renew their registration and because the boy is a handful and you are frustrated.

 

If you want this trip to be a "plum" that only the best behaved and committed scouts can attend, then it's ok to have Pack rules for behavior, attendance, parental support, etc. But you can't make them up now and apply them retroactively. If he met the established criteria (if any) at the time you accepted his money, you have no dilemma.

 

 

 

[FScouter]

If you take the hard line on this you may find that the boy/dad will retract his resignation and will re-commit to the program. Then he will quit the day after your event is over. You and your committee need to decide how much you don't want the boy to participate in the event.