My district and council are doomed.

[fred8033]

Sounds like time for drastic change or to be pulled into another council that has a functional structure.

[CynicalScouter]

1 minute ago, fred8033 said:

pulled into another council that has a functional structure.

A council with a functional structure?

Where would you find such a magical creature?

[MikeS72]

1 hour ago, CynicalScouter said:

A council with a functional structure?

Where would you find such a magical creature?

Ninety eight years maintaining our original council borders here, must be doing something right.

[CommishJulian]

On 8/29/2020 at 4:05 PM, Eagle94-A1 said:

So once again we are without a chairman. Two people have been asked to take the position and said no

At least in your Council they ask if someone wants to be chairman.  In our communistic horror show, it's only through private appointment, and only to wealthy POS.  

My efforts to build a private district, is having little success.  With no units being supported, there's no idea who's still participating, much less how to reach them and offer them any help.

[CommishJulian]

23 hours ago, CynicalScouter said:

A council with a functional structure?

Where would you find such a magical creature?

It happened to us a few years back.  My birth council was dog droppings, and the other was Swiss watch good.  -They were funded by Boeing who left for TX and they had no revenue all of a sudden.  Long story short, our messed up council had more people (most of them were messed up) and within 3 years the, crap folks drove all the excellent people out.  But kept their camps, which they sold, and now laid-off everyone else....  

At times I think my dog can do a better job running a council.

Sorry, I digress.  There are great councils, but National dictates their terms to every one and everything, so eventually everything will forced to merge.  

Edited August 31, 2020 by CommishJulian
I digressed, therefore I edit.

[CynicalScouter]

12 minutes ago, CommishJulian said:

At least in your Council they ask if someone wants to be chairman.  In our communistic horror show, it's only through private appointment, and only to wealthy POS.  

My efforts to build a private district, is having little success.  With no units being supported, there's no idea who's still participating, much less how to reach them and offer them any help.

First, although theoretically the "model" is for district's chartered organization reps should be elected the district chair, in practice Councils do it because CoRs are mostly just on paper.

Second, what do you mean by a "private district"? You do understand that only the Councils are permitted to create or administer districts?

Edited August 31, 2020 by CynicalScouter

[CommishJulian]

I realized about 6 years ago that district functionally is a product of volunteer effort.  So when a small, and shrinking, group of angry white folks ignore the units in the district, expect their for their own, there is plenty of opportunity to help packs go. 

So yes CS, I fully know the legals about district and council relationships.  What I found is that kindness, and supportive aspects of scouting can, in theory, be provided by a group of caring, currently youth protection trained, adults, outside of the district. 

The nut I haven't been able to crack is the look of legitimacy.  The haters in charge look legitimate, but they violate Scouts BSA policy all the time.  I as a lone, caring Cub Scout supporter, can easily be branded a bad guy by them and in turn, no Pack will ask me for any help.  Next year the Pack folds, and the district is 15% smaller.

Said another way, support can be given outside the district's control authority because for the first 80 years of the BSA, that's how people helped each other.  I want to help new parents, just not having to kiss the rump of an old person whom I don't agree with to in order to do that.

That's what got me into so much trouble.. I didn't want to abide by rules made up my the party in power that go against printed BSA guidelines.  Flagrantly in violation of YPT, District training, common sense, Scout Oath and Law.  And when you go bringing that up to a Council facing a second bankruptcy in 4 years, they don't want to hear it.  

Edited August 31, 2020 by CommishJulian
TMI, and to tone is down a notch. TY and sorry folks

[fred8033]

Kudos

Edited August 31, 2020 by fred8033

[CommishJulian]

I already did.  Your right.  But they did.  So the question I have to ask now is this?  People with money buy power and use it for their own personal emotional enjoyment, all at the cost of average youth.  This is nothing new in the history of mankind.  So, in a light heated way here, can you articulate why my saying so is bad.  The civil rights movement is all about calling thing like they are, not by how we want to see them.

 

BTW I am a middle aged white guy, who's technically upper middle class.  If I can't call it, who else can?

Edited August 31, 2020 by CommishJulian

[CynicalScouter]

1 minute ago, CommishJulian said:

Said another way, support can be given outside the district's control authority because for the first 80 years of the BSA, that's how people helped each other. 

That's what got me into so much trouble.. I didn't want to abide by rules made up my the party in power that go against printed BSA guidelines.  Flagrantly in violation of YPT, District training, common sense, Scout Oath and Law.  And when you go bringing that up to a Council facing a second bankruptcy in 4 years, they don't want to hear it.  

First, that may have been the way it was done the first 80 years, but it is not how it is now. Your actions sound as if they are possibly illegal.
Second, if there is "flagrant violation of YPT" then you have reported it to the Scout Executive and National, right? Or did you just decide to go your own way?
Third, precisely what Council went bankrupt?

[CommishJulian]

Multiple letters to CEO, Area who sent it to Regional, a certified 14 page report to Irving TX.  Three responses by my attorney to shut down lies that came from the district.  Whistle Blower policy not applicaple to volunteers.  No retaliation prevention policy in play.  The Council Commissioner knows and he's trying to help from his side.   

"Your actions sound as if they are possibly illegal."  What the heck?  Nothing I've done is illegal or outside of Scouts BSA guidelines.  They have.  I have submitted emails, screen shots, letters.  

"Or did you just decide to go your own way?"  My way, as you out it, is how things used to be here back in the late 1990s.  Back then, people helped each other freely.  There was no boundaries, no pecking order.  Back then a volunteer was wanted, no matter what their experience was, or how big their ego was.  Good scouters were cherished, period.

"First, that may have been the way it was done the first 80 years, but it is not how it is now."  You are so right CynicalScouter.  That's why it is dying.  ... I've just now joined the group that feels is needs to die to make room for a better representation of Scouting values, moral, and ideals.

[fred8033]

15 minutes ago, CommishJulian said:

(part 1) I didn't want to abide by rules made up my the party in power .... (part 2) that go against printed BSA guidelines.  

My experience is "part 2" is often the view of the side that is frustrated.  Could be done better.  Should be done different.  Etc.  ... 

If it is truly a YPT, you have responsibility report and escalate.  Period.   District training violations are often a "suggested" ideal way of doing things, but can drift.  Common sense is amazingly not as common as you'd think.  Scout oath and law are between you and your conscience.  .  

My experience is "part 1" is the real issue.  Volunteers always want to be confirmed as valuable and useful.  Volunteers always fear fly-in, hit-and-run volunteers.  ...  You can do a lot of good, but you always need to invest in relationships even if you just want to help out.  Always.

[fred8033]

1 hour ago, CommishJulian said:

Multiple letters to CEO, Area who sent it to Regional, a certified 14 page report to Irving TX.  Three responses by my attorney to shut down lies that came from the district.  Whistle Blower policy not applicaple to volunteers.  No retaliation prevention policy in play.  The Council Commissioner knows and he's trying to help from his side.   

"Your actions sound as if they are possibly illegal."  What the heck?  Nothing I've done is illegal or outside of Scouts BSA guidelines.  They have.  I have submitted emails, screen shots, letters.  

"Or did you just decide to go your own way?"  My way, as you out it, is how things used to be here back in the late 1990s.  Back then, people helped each other freely.  There was no boundaries, no pecking order.  Back then a volunteer was wanted, no matter what their experience was, or how big their ego was.  Good scouters were cherished, period.

"First, that may have been the way it was done the first 80 years, but it is not how it is now."  You are so right CynicalScouter.  That's why it is dying.  ... I've just now joined the group that feels is needs to die to make room for a better representation of Scouting values, moral, and ideals.

Be careful !!!!  ... When issues like this happen, everyone is tainted.   ... BSA is not rich enough to afford legal battles when volunteers argue.  The end result is often both get banned / removed.  

"Back then ... " ... organizations always change with the volunteers.  For 15 years, I had a set of volunteers, I clicked with naturally and it was great.  Now, there area few volunteers that I don't click with as much.  So, I've moved to volunteer in a more limited targeted way.  Maybe in the future, I'll volunteer differently again.  I enjoy scouting both ways, but I'm not going to fight a losing battle.  "Back then" is usually a magical mix of volunteers that worked well together or was perceived as having worked well together.

I fear your situation has already gone far, far astray.  I pray it smooths out for you and yours.  REMEMBER !!!  Don't take this as a personal criticism of yourself.  Learn from it, but don't get overly down on it.  Ultimately, this is temporary.  There will be other ways to spend your time.  There are fulfilling, meaningful opportunities everywhere.  Maybe there is another way in scouting to volunteer and spend your time.  If so, great.  If not, move on.  It's not worth damaging yourself.  And to be honest, you will also damage others by fighting without a smooth way to succeed.  It's just not worth it.  

My recommendation ...  Quietly let this de-escalate.   I had originally written "do everything to deescalate", but there is probably not much you can actively do.  Sometimes the best remedy is time.  Maybe a few kind consolidator words.  

Edited August 31, 2020 by fred8033

[Eagle94-A1]

4 hours ago, CommishJulian said:

At least in your Council they ask if someone wants to be chairman.  In our communistic horror show, it's only through private appointment, and only to wealthy POS.  

It was the District Commissioner asking folks, not council level folks. And in all honesty the current District Chairman was pretty much appointed by the 2 registered AND active members of the committee, myself and the commissioner. He is an experienced ASM, and had some ties to the local business community before announcing he was leaving.

3 hours ago, fred8033 said:

Be careful !!!!  ... When issues like this happen, everyone is tainted.   ... BSA is not rich enough to afford legal battles when volunteers argue.  The end result is often both get banned / removed.  

 I second this. A longtime outstanding Sulver Beaver recipient volunteer was removed because he ticked of the DFS and SE. 20+ years later, I still do not know the entire story as to why he was removed. Rumor has it he found some financial irregularities he uncovered. I was the DE right after he was removed, and he sued the BSA and was temporarily reinstated. My SE didn't even give me tell me he was reinstated until I called him to confirm that I needed to call the cops on him for trespassing at an event. Glad I made that call.

[ParkMan]

@Eagle94-A1 - I'm so sorry to hear of the continued woes in your district and council.  It really is a shame at how it has deteriorated.

@CommishJulian - I'm trying to follow your story, but am a bit confused.  For that I apologize.

I'm involved in a mid-to-large council.  In our council there is certainly some correlation between personal success and positions like district chair - but only to a small degree.  What I've found happens is that the every couple of years as the council nears nomination time, they look around at the districts.  If you've got a well functioning district with good leadership, they are going to leave you alone.  If you've got an opening for a district chair and there is a credible district chair candidate who can get along with the council board, you'll get the nod.  But, if no-one has an idea who should be the next district chair, the council team starts looking around.  When that happens, friends and donors start to get asked.  "Hey, Tom is an active donor and board member and lives in the district, I wonder if he'll do it?"

My two suggestions:

1. If someone wants to be a district chair, don't fight with the council and other opinion leaders.  You can do the right thing discreetly.

2. If you want to fix your district, build a team of people that includes your DE and fix it.