My district and council are doomed.

[Momleader]

That is heartbreaking for the current cubs and incoming cubs. 
Our council - who did the same thing. Even though all their camps offer cub camping they had one camp that was really geared toward good cub camping and used to be full every summer Plus the OA used it a lot. There were full weeks of just cub scouts in camp. Then that council sold it and at an auction and according to them now cub leaders aren’t promoting the cub camping program enough and cub camping program on this side state has Really suffered losses in numbers of kids doing day camp and overnights. Parents don’t want to send their first year camper over an hour away where they get a section of the camp during regular older scout week and have to share swim area with older and much bigger kids and the dining hall. Incase something happens.  And the nearest cub day camp is an hour by car and hour ten-twenty by school bus  it used to be only 30 minutes 

 

[Eagle94-A1]

My council has a history of not following national policy. For a very long period of time, NO ONE was trained in the nationally required training for volunteers to run district and council cub scout weekend camp outs. They have allowed Cubs to go canoeing in the rivers at 2 of the councils camps. And they have never published an official guide where Packs cam camp at. So many packs use the OA's "Where To Go Camping" book to select campgrounds outside of the council properties.

 

[PACAN]

@Eagle94-A1

Once you realize that you are not your council's customer, they are yours it will come clear to you.

[Eagle94-A1]

On 7/23/2020 at 8:44 AM, PACAN said:

@Eagle94-A1

Once you realize that you are not your council's customer, they are yours it will come clear to you.

I think that is one reason why the council is failing. We have folks going to out of council shops because we get better service or have more customer friendly hours. Plus they are tired of orders "not arriving at the office" or being lost. Best example of that is the Eagle application that was mailed and "never received." 

I know some folks have stopped giving FOS not only because of the increases in National fees, but also they are not seeing any benefits. They never see their DE, we are unable to get in the schools, which the DE should be working on and hasn't,  When volunteers try to do their own recruiting, they are told to stop. In fact multiple events have been interfered with when the pros intervene (basically saying "No you cannnot do this"  and "yes this will happen despite everyone's objections", etc as opposed to actually being there. And the interference is causing longtime volunteers to quit and/or focus solely on their units. Which has caused a lot of problems i.e. training, putting on events, etc.

I think that is why only 35% of the units go to the council camp. The staff's attitude is not customer friendly, like campers are an inconvenience. Equipment and supplies are wholly inadequate. I have seen rescue equipment fall apart while used for training lifeguards and Lifesaving MB, not enough boats for everyone to do boating activities during their time, and not enough supplies that the Scouts paid for to the point that Scouts are "sharing" kits needed for various MBs. As for program, well it's a MB giveaway. I had Scouts earn MBs that could not do the skills, and 1 Scout earn a MB that he never went to class because he switched on Sunday to another. Folks have complained for years about the problems, and nothing is done to make the situation better.

Sadly I wish my council realized I and my Scouts were their customer.

 

 

[David CO]

On 7/21/2020 at 9:06 PM, Momleader said:

Parents don’t want to send their first year camper over an hour away where they get a section of the camp during regular older scout week and have to share swim area with older and much bigger kids and the dining hall. Incase something happens.  

Sorry.  I'm not sure I understand.  Aren't most public pools and beaches open to children of all ages?  Don't most restaurants (like McDonalds) serve children of all ages?  Why would parents get upset over their child using a swim area or dining hall (at scout camp) that serves children of all ages?  I should think their kids are already very familiar with the concept.  I just don't get it.
 

[Jameson76]

On 7/23/2020 at 8:44 AM, PACAN said:

@Eagle94-A1

Once you realize that you are not your council's customer, they are yours it will come clear to you.

It's the old adage...Do we raise money to enable a community to have Scouts OR Do we have Scouts to enable a group to be able to raise money.

Agree that way too many volunteers feel the "Council" is the end all be all, the oracle or knowledge, the giver of permissions, the experts on Scouting.  Actually the Council is supposed to support the unit and LOCAL Scouting.  Sadly it does not work that way and many of us wonder what in fact the cast of many at the Council office actually do all day.  How in fact do they (The Council and the minions there) bring value to the BSA program in our community day in and day out?

Edited July 25, 2020 by Jameson76

[Momleader]

19 hours ago, David CO said:

Sorry.  I'm not sure I understand.  Aren't most public pools and beaches open to children of all ages?  Don't most restaurants (like McDonalds) serve children of all ages?  Why would parents get upset over their child using a swim area or dining hall (at scout camp) that serves children of all ages?  I should think their kids are already very familiar with the concept.  I just don't get it.
 

Sorry - didn’t splain that well. 
The parents aren’t crazy about the idea of 2nd -4th graders being in camp/dining hall with high school age campers for a week. A few staffers is different.   Before we merged with a neighboring pack they had Webelos attend Webelos camp in a neighboring council and apparently the boys picked up some colorful vocabulary from the Older Boy Scouts at the waterfront. Parents all filled in the others - I wasn’t there just have to deal with the ‘remember what happenEd when’ - after the merge our pack went to the cub weeks at the camp the council sold and there was no issues again, haven’t been able to get parent to send the cubs to the other council camps since the sale. 
 

Then there is the ‘what if little cubby gets I’ll/inconsolably homesick/injured and we have to drive over an hour one way to get them?’  some parents can’t get over that in their heads. 

[David CO]

6 hours ago, Momleader said:

apparently the boys picked up some colorful vocabulary from the Older Boy Scouts at the waterfront.

I've been complaining (for some time now) about the frequent use of profanity by our boy scouts.  I won't tolerate it in my classroom or my troop.  I agree with what you are saying.  Some of these older kids have no filter. 

We haven't used any scout camps for years.  We mostly use church owned campgrounds.  Sorry about the misunderstanding.  My first impression (from your post) was that the parents' concern was a YP thing.  

Edited July 26, 2020 by David CO

[CommishJulian]

Wow!  Great thread.  Great conversations... about a lousy topic.

About 8 years ago I concluded that BSA wanted to make money selling camps.  In those 8 years, our Council merged, and 5 properties were liquidated.  I've made up a list of sneaky ways Councils sell properties, one of them is closing a camp for a year, or not listing it for a season, and then complaining that it lost money that year.

I've met a regional stooge before.  They make politicians look humane.  This one didn't give a rat's arse about the kids or us volunteers.  To be in that high of a tier of the BSA you need to be a full-blown fanatic and card carrying party member.

Every Council is different, with their motives and issues.  Our Council is a cult, but the one a few miles away is super nice to their families, but fell on hard times.

I've found that real numbers, data, excel spreadsheets is the best way to look at Scouting.  Numbers typically don't lie and will tell you whats what.  But in failing areas, stooges in charge don't want the numbers shown because it makes them look bad.

I'll echo what someone said earlier, and encourage readers to stay focused on keeping the youth engaged.  Ignore the price-hike threats and let them come to you with their sob stories about losing money and the threat of selling camps.  When they do come to your unit with a huge price hike, play dumb and let them explain it to you.  Then I would ask the unit (parents) how they feel about it, and if they want to continue or not.

[David CO]

7 hours ago, CommishJulian said:

About 8 years ago I concluded that BSA wanted to make money selling camps. 

The executives have know for some time now that BSA is doomed.  Their goal is to secure (for themselves) as much as they can before the final breakup.  

[CommishJulian]

1 minute ago, David CO said:

The executives have know for some time now that BSA is doomed.  Their goal is to secure (for themselves) as much as they can before the final breakup.

DAMN that's harsh!  Hearing that said by another person that is.  But I know it to be true.

[CynicalScouter]

38 minutes ago, David CO said:

The executives have know for some time now that BSA is doomed.  Their goal is to secure (for themselves) as much as they can before the final breakup.  

Here's one of the silver linings to the ongoing horror that is the bankruptcy: transparency.

Councils had to turn over their financial statements to the court in July if they wanted to keep the option to participate in any future settlement. National has to file all kinds of financial disclosure.

Want to find hidden assets and improper transfers among executives? Get creditors lawyers involved. They want every single dime going to themselves or their clients.

 

Edited July 27, 2020 by CynicalScouter

[Eagle94-A1]

Update on both  council and district.

I attended a council program committee meeting last week. Out of  at least 3 dozen invitees, only a handful attended. Program is not looking good. Events are being cancelled or turning virtual. As was noted, a lot of Scouts are getting tired of the virtual, they want the outing. Also they were asking for folks to run these events. What concernd me is that some of these events should already have people in charge and do not.

As for the district WOW! Found out the DE quit. They are not replacing him with a DE, but are trying to hire a a parapro to work 29 hours/week. For the moment 3 DEs are covering 9 districts. Mergers will probably happen after December 31st.

Also found out our current District Chairman is stepping down due to job move. So once again we are without a chairman. Two people have been asked to take the position and said no. One because she would not take any crap from the council and has had dealing with pros in the past. The other does not see how he can influence the changes he views need to be made to be successful. He tried it once and was pushed out. I think he was asked out of desperation to have the position filled until the merger

[CynicalScouter]

Sorry to hear it. What a mess.

At one point I think you talked about your Council folding, is that still on the table?

[Eagle94-A1]

12 hours ago, CynicalScouter said:

Sorry to hear it. What a mess.

At one point I think you talked about your Council folding, is that still on the table?

Yes, we have had a conditional charter for several years now (no one seems to know how many) and Dec. 31st is the deadline to fix all issues or merger talks begin with several councils. Council is large geographically,  but has a small population .